Hicks and Mullins back this week…what happens with the roster?

[maybenxtyr]

3 minutes ago, sportsfan8703 said:

Some O’s fans would rather we not win the division with Ortiz and Cowser, rather than win the division with Hicks and Mateo.

It's more than just 2023 though. If that's how you are looking at it, then I guess there's no reason for a conversation.

 

Are you good with Hicks and Mateo on the roster  opening day next year? Or is next year somehow different and they can have Cowser and Ortiz? 

 

Have you been paying attention to Westburg? Not all rookies are the same, and as high as I am on Westburg, some would argue that Ortiz has the potential to be just as good as him. 

[spleen1015]

Just now, Bemorewins said:

Unfortunately this is probably true. 

I want to win the WS. I want to see this team in the playoffs 10 years in a row. I just think in 2023 the best option to do that is to give prospects time over players we know aren't that good. If we win the division because Hicks hit .350 with 7 HRs in September, it definitely won't make me unhappy.

[Bemorewins]

1 minute ago, spleen1015 said:

I want to win the WS. I want to see this team in the playoffs 10 years in a row. I just think in 2023 the best option to do that is to give prospects time over players we know aren't that good. If we win the division because Hicks hit .350 with 7 HRs in September, it definitely won't make me unhappy.

I respect everyone being entitled to their opinion about certain players. I just want the best/most productive players to play. at this point in the season Whoever gets us there, I am good with.

[LA2]

2 hours ago, Just Regular said:

Now that our berth is more or less assured, I have been wondering a little for the group that if - for the sake of argument - it is predetermined we will lose in the Elite Eight, would it be better to be a wildcard (then 1-1 in tournament rounds) or division champ (0-1 in tournament rounds)?

Some interesting pros and cons either way.    Of course the 12-team field gives a false surface impression tournament entrants have a 1/12 shot - it is either approximately 1/8 or 1/16 by dice rolls.     

Agree the division is a huge prize and if it is close all the best pitchers should be used in Games 161 and 162 even if you fall short and you have to use down rotation guys the Tuesday to Thursday.      I believe all the opening series run Tuesday to Thursday so unless on short rest the Sunday Game 162 starters are out of the Wild Card short series.     Certainly I hope the team earns Bruce Zimmermann or equivalent the game that day!

Interesting....

[LookitsPuck]

1 minute ago, IPlayGM said:

To your bolded comment, sure you can. This team is three clear up top, and has plenty of contributors to let Cowser struggle through. If the powers that be feel that he can/will work through these things in time for September/October, then you let him be. I know that they don’t want to lose anybody, but my feeling is that playing Cowser now makes the team better in the playoffs. Therefore, that’s my vote. If it were me, when Hicks came back, that would be it for Mateo.

Mateo actually has been decent against LHP (.300/.340/.450, 790 OPS) and brings defense, positional versatility, and speed. 

[LookitsPuck]

18 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

Because he was good for a few weeks 2 months ago and that’s all people are choosing to remember.

Hicks had a rough 4 days prior to getting hurt, but for the rest of the month of July he slashed .271/.321/.417 - .738 OPS. That's respectable.

[AdamK]

4 minutes ago, LookitsPuck said:

Mateo actually has been decent against LHP (.300/.340/.450, 790 OPS) and brings defense, positional versatility, and speed. 

This year, in the bottom of the 9th, would you rather have Gunnar at SS and Westberg at 2nd or Mateo & Frazier?

I'm not sure position versatility has been established with Mateo if lately his defense at SS has been questionable. (edit: added this part-->) Don't get me wrong, if he can play CF in a pinch, I love that -- but he's had a knack for allowing other teams to extend innings late in games and put our bullpen in very precarious positions needing to get a 4th out.

 

Edited August 11, 2023 by AdamK

[wildcard]

2 hours ago, Frobby said:

My personal feeling is that pinch running is highly overrated.  In 92 games this year, Mateo is a +3 runs baserunner.  Obtviously a situation could arise in a tight playoff game where a speedy baserunner could come in handy, but there’s a lot more situations where a good hitter off the bench comes in handy.  

If everyone is healthy the have Adley, Mountcastle, Frazier, Gunnar, Urias, Hays, Mullins, Santander, and O'Hearn starting vs righties.

The Bench is McCann, Hick, and Westburg none of which are big base stealers.  Mateo leads the team in steals and adds an element of speed that I think Elias  and Hyde will want on the team.   Plus this is the team that got them to the playoffs.  They could go with 14 position players but I don't know who they would add at present. 

[Sports Guy]

20 minutes ago, Bemorewins said:

I have no issues whatsoever with Mateo being DFA'd. But the O's can seem to quit him for some reason.

Question for you though: What if it doesn't click for Cowser this season? Some say they see a turnaround coming, I'm not sure that is what I see. 60 ABs 22 Ks and 2 XBH. 

You have Kjerstad you can call up if Cowser doesn’t turn things around.

You have plenty of existing MiL options.  Maybe you put Westburg out in the OF and have Ortiz up and play Urias more regularly?

Plenty  of options that don’t have to be Hicks.

[LookitsPuck]

3 minutes ago, AdamK said:

This year, in the bottom of the 9th, would you rather have Gunnar at SS and Westberg at 2nd or Mateo & Frazier?

I'm not sure position versatility has been established with Mateo if lately his defense at SS has been questionable. (edit: added this part-->) Don't get me wrong, if he can play CF in a pinch, I love that -- but he's had a knack for allowing other teams to extend innings late in games and put our bullpen in very precarious positions needing to get a 4th out.

 

That example really isn't relevant here if we're talking about Cowser. Mateo is trending towards a bench player, even more so with Cedric back. The issue I have here is Cowser staying up here over McKenna. When Hicks is activated, I'd be perplexed if Cowser isn't sent down and instead Jorge Mateo is cut.

[maybenxtyr]

I'm not advocating for this, but does anyone think Daz Cameron could have been more useful in the roster spot over Hicks? Just curious about others opinions.

[LA2]

16 hours ago, SteveA said:

That's an overstatement.   He performed admirably for us during Cedric's first stint on the IL, without his contributions during that time I would say we would probably not be in first place right now.

It's a minor point, but baseball is ultimately entertainment and, as an O's fan living in the belly of the beast, it was great fun to see Hicks perform so well for us on NY's $10 million dime--and to have Yankee fan friends shudder, lose their drunken smiles, and prepare alibis or admissions when they saw me coming into my regular bars, e.g., The Y's hitting coach stinks (he in fact was soon fired, tho not of course b/c of Hicksie), We fans hated him unfairly, He was dog-housed by Boone, etc.

I look forward to Aaron Hicks returning, going on another tear like those first few weeks, and, regardless of whether he does hit like that again or not, makes it unnecessary to play Cowser, Mateo, or McKenna in CF.

Edited August 12, 2023 by LA2

[IPlayGM]

1 hour ago, Bemorewins said:

I have no issues whatsoever with Mateo being DFA'd. But the O's can seem to quit him for some reason.

Question for you though: What if it doesn't click for Cowser this season? Some say they see a turnaround coming, I'm not sure that is what I see. 60 ABs 22 Ks and 2 XBH. 

I guess I would say so what? There are enough guys there that can play if he continues to struggle. I don’t see that he is hurting us overall right now, we have been great post all star break.  To me the risk of that is mitigated by all the other guys who could start over him.  Especially if Mateo is the one to go.

[Frobby]

1 hour ago, Sports Guy said:

He has..he has also had a lot of moments where his fielding has cost us a lot of runs and his inability to get on base and his ability to make outs has hurt us.

Well, WPA does weight offensive plays according to their importance, so it’s pretty clear his offensive contributions have outweighed his offensive shortcomings by a pretty wide margin. WPA doesn’t factor in defense, so I’m not suggesting that WPA is a good measure of overall value.   It’s a pretty good measure of “winning plays,” at least on offense.  

It would be cool if there was such a thing as defensive WPA.   For example, Frazier’s inning-ending diving play in the 5th inning with runners on 1st and 3rd was pretty huge.  Baltimore’s chances of winning increased by 7% as a result of that play.  But as things stand today, there would be no way to distinguish an excellent diving play like that from a routine grounder to 2B in terms of a WPA calculation. 
 

[sportsfan8703]

1 hour ago, maybenxtyr said:

It's more than just 2023 though. If that's how you are looking at it, then I guess there's no reason for a conversation.

 

Are you good with Hicks and Mateo on the roster  opening day next year? Or is next year somehow different and they can have Cowser and Ortiz? 

 

Have you been paying attention to Westburg? Not all rookies are the same, and as high as I am on Westburg, some would argue that Ortiz has the potential to be just as good as him. 

Hicks is a FA. He 100% won’t be back.  Ortiz will get his shot next year.  Sorry to break the news. I’m a 2024+ Joey Ortiz fan.