Bullpen Struggles and Possible Changes

[Uli2001]

15 minutes ago, dystopia said:

I was listening on the radio but it sounded like he pitched pretty well today, he was throwing strikes and got beat on a good pitch. Perez was the goat for putting those runners on, the second via a stupid attempted barehand play. 

 

Bautista didn't pitch "pretty well" today at all. He walked two hitters, and would have blown the save again if not for a top defensive play by Urias.

I hope it's a bump in the road, but he hasn't been the same for about two weeks now.

[dystopia]

5 minutes ago, Uli2001 said:

Bautista didn't pitch "pretty well" today at all. He walked two hitters, and would have blown the save again if not for a top defensive play by Urias.

I hope it's a bump in the road, but he hasn't been the same for about two weeks now.

Not Bautista. Cano.

[ledzepp8]

4 minutes ago, Uli2001 said:

Bautista didn't pitch "pretty well" today at all. He walked two hitters, and would have blown the save again if not for a top defensive play by Urias.

I hope it's a bump in the road, but he hasn't been the same for about two weeks now.

This is just inaccurate. Bautista has made 3 appearances in August, good, subpar and bad. He gave up exactly 0 runs in all of July.

[Roll Tide]

1 hour ago, EddeeEddee said:

Clearly the Oriole bullpen is struggling more than earlier in the season.  At one point the bullpen was considered this team's strength, though now it may be the O's biggest vulnerability.

Perhaps the O's should use than one closer for the rest of the season.  For whatever reason Bautista is not as consistent as he was earlier on -- and even earlier on he could be shaky on occasion.  Maybe when Wells returns he can close some -- or when Givens and Means return they can close some (though that's far from a given -- no pun intended).  Cano can close sometimes too, though I think Hyde and most everyone prefers him in the 8th inning or sometimes earlier than the 8th.

Fujinami?  I think no way he closes.  In fact, I'm wondering if Fujinami gets cut at some point when the other pitchers -- mainly Wells, Means and Givens but others too -- return from the IL and the minors.  Fujinami looked quite promising earlier on but recently he's shown he's the scariest pitcher on the team -- and not in a good way.  

Most of us wanted Elias to do more to bring another strong reliever on the team.  I think Elias goofed by not getting a David Robertson or some other strong closer.  But now that that's in the past, what can be -- or should be -- done to strengthen the bullpen?  Is it just a matter of waiting for the guys I mentioned above already to come back from the IL or the minors?  Or can other changes be made?  

By the way if the moderators think this thread should be combined with an existing bullpen thread, then go for it.  Looking forward to other's thoughts.

 

I thought Krehbiel looked good. He isn’t overpowering but he throws strikes. I’m not sure about the guy we just pick up off the scrap heap. 

[AdamK]

12 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

Who is starting to worry about Gunnar because he is slumping recently?

Kinda seems like (in my unscientific roundup):

Down:

• Gunnar: down. Getting on base less and hitting more grounders. 
• Santander: down, for a while 
• O'Hearn: down a little lately but so so good June and July

Up:

• Hayes: up a bit (July was rough) but the double plays this month...
• Mountcastle: up since his return
• Adley: up lately (and getting more DH time)
• McCann: up lately (and catching more)

Followed by:

• Westberg: up a little but kind of a mixed bag
• Frazier: up a little but, you know... Frazier
• Urias: up a little overall but maybe last year was his top
• Mateo: has been down so long 
• Cowser: Well... not up but thought would be nice if he can hang around enough to get up.

 

 

[Frobby]

I’m not very worried about Bautista.  He was overdue for a hiccup.  Cano is more of a concern for me.   He’s been mediocre for almost 3 months now.  The amazing first 5-6 weeks of the season make his overall numbers look good, but he really hasn’t been a shutdown 8th inning guy for quite a while.  

Having Coulombe out is a blow. Hopefully he just needs a bit of rest, but if he’s out beyond a couple of weeks, we are going to have difficulty covering that hole. 

Notwithstanding his infuriating PFP play today, Cionel Perez has been quite good the last 7 weeks or so.   Hopefully that will continue.  

Like pretty much everyone here, I’m hoping that Means, Wells and Givens can give us some help down the stretch.  


 

[sportsfan8703]

It’s going to be tougher to fix the pen now that we are going with a 6 man rotation, and we will be all the way out on the west coast for the next 10 days. 

I could see Fuji and Khriebel getting optioned with Givens, Baker, and Vespi, in line for call ups. 

[tntoriole]

40 minutes ago, ledzepp8 said:

This is just inaccurate. Bautista has made 3 appearances in August, good, subpar and bad. He gave up exactly 0 runs in all of July.

Exactly!! Everyone needs to breathe. Lol 

And two of those “bad” performances were against the defending World Champions who are clicking on all cylinders … jeez .. we are not going to be playing Houston EVERY game.  He threw 102.5 mph and had again issues with the splitter sure which he needs against the best lineups but that is just the way it goes against a lineup like Houston.  Their hitters BE good!!!!

[tntoriole]

30 minutes ago, Frobby said:

I’m not very worried about Bautista.  He was overdue for a hiccup.  Cano is more of a concern for me.   He’s been mediocre for almost 3 months now.  The amazing first 5-6 weeks of the season make his overall numbers look good, but he really hasn’t been a shutdown 8th inning guy for quite a while.  

Having Coulombe out is a blow. Hopefully he just needs a bit of rest, but if he’s out beyond a couple of weeks, we are going to have difficulty covering that hole. 

Notwithstanding his infuriating PFP play today, Cionel Perez has been quite good the last 7 weeks or so.   Hopefully that will continue.  

Like pretty much everyone here, I’m hoping that Means, Wells and Givens can give us some help down the stretch.  


 

This is correct. Elias is putting a bunch of faith in experiments like Webb, and Fuji even with verrrry thin almost nonexistent options if any injuries. 

[tntoriole]

For those concerned about Bautista, think about what a nightmare him going out at all would create!!  A tidal wave. 

[Jagwar]

I'm mostly curious about what the plan is once Means, Wells, Hall, and Givens are ready to join the team. At least 2 of them should be in the bullpen in the postseason if they are pitching well. 

[EddeeEddee]

22 minutes ago, tntoriole said:

For those concerned about Bautista, think about what a nightmare him going out at all would create!!  A tidal wave. 

It's not the concern about Bautista as much as a concern as to who steps in when he's not available -- which may be the case this weekend and into next week because he's thrown 3 of the past 4 games. 

But also this thread is about about late inning relief concerns in general -- and what shuffling may need to happen when Coulombe, Wells, Givens and Means start to come back.  

[EddeeEddee]

27 minutes ago, Jagwar said:

I'm mostly curious about what the plan is once Means, Wells, Hall, and Givens are ready to join the team. At least 2 of them should be in the bullpen in the postseason if they are pitching well. 

Right, add Coulombe to that list too.  I'd be surprised if Voth or Tate would be brought, back but the good news is the O's hopefully would have extra arms available beginning in the next few weeks.

[rm5678]

1 hour ago, Frobby said:

Notwithstanding his infuriating PFP play today, Cionel Perez has been quite good the last 7 weeks or so.   Hopefully that will continue.  

 

In Hyde's post-game press conference, he was clearly angry about the PFP play. He mentioned it twice and said it almost screwed up the game for them.

[scarey1999]

3 hours ago, EddeeEddee said:

You say he was in the CY conversation -- but is he still?  I doubt he ever really was, except among O's fans, and you could argue there are 2 or 3 closers that are better -- Josh Hader being one of them (though he's in the National League).

He has definitely been talked about on the national scene as a CY candidate. Fangraphs mentioned him in a recent write up and also MLB network had a couple segments on him being in the conversation this week prior to the Houston series. 

I mean he’s won the reliever of the month award 3 of the 4 months thus far. That alone warrants him being in the conversation.