Trade chips replaced in-house = Salary Relief

[Mooreisbetter27]

Just now, Sports Guy said:

Wrong thread 

Thanks! Will delete 

[Aristotelian]

3 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

I don’t know that he will go beyond 3 years. Houston hasn’t. But I definitely think he would be willing to go up to 3 years. I also think he would trade for pitching and that may be his preferred route.

The team has. A lot of room for improvement.  We are 1 game better, by record, than the Dodgers…do you put us on the same level as them?  Atlanta is 5 games better than us in the standings. Do you feel we are that close to them? 
 

For me, I think the gap is far wider right now. 

Honestly, I don't think we're as good as Atlanta but I think we could be if we make the playoffs and get the right rental guy. There is going to be a nice buyers market for rental guys next year.

And like I said I'm just not sure where the obvious upgrade is, especially relative to cost. It would be one thing if we had the Angels rotation where you can be pretty sure any $15M AAV pitcher is going to be an upgrade. In our case you can spend $15M AAV and end up with someone not significantly better, maybe worse, than Kremer/Wells.

I think the master strategy is something like: Plan A is Develop from Within. Ideally you have a good core and organizational depth purely from your draft and international signings. This can include team friendly extensions. Plan B is Make Trades Using Surplus Assets. You don't want to make a Glenn Davis mistake but it's OK to use your assets from time to time. Plan C is Short Term Free Agent. Not much risk there. Only limit is payroll. Long Term Contract is the last option if all else fails and you can't upgrade any other way.  

[Sports Guy]

There is a very obvious upgrade needed in the rotation.

[wildcard]

37 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

There is a very obvious upgrade needed in the rotation.

Obvious lack of respect for the O's development.

[Sports Guy]

Just now, wildcard said:

Obvious lack of respect for the O's development.

You are so clueless.

[Frobby]

3 hours ago, Sports Guy said:

The 2014 is an example of a team that is exactly the example you say would be epic but hey, let’s overlook actual facts and actual recent team history.

There are plenty of things that can go wrong for a team and there are plenty of red flags for the Os right now, especially with Felix gone for 2024. There are also, of course, a ton of reasons to be extremely optimistic but those reasons don’t mean you don’t look to get better. You should always try to look to get better.  I have already said 3 years or less for a starter although 4 years is possible for the right guy although I tend to doubt Elias goes that far and I’m not sure that guy exists this offseason anyway.

Either way, I have never introduced the idea of 5 years so I’m not sure why you are bringing that up in response to me.

I agree with your point about anything can happen, but I think this team is in much better position to continue contending than that 2014 team was.  Do you agree?

By the way, have we heard that Felix will require surgery and will miss the 2024 season, or is that just your assumption?  Did I miss some news?

[Malike]

1 minute ago, Frobby said:

I agree with your point about anything can happen, but I think this team is in much better position to continue contending than that 2014 team was.  Do you agree?

By the way, have we heard that Felix will require surgery and will miss the 2024 season, or is that just your assumption?  Did I miss some news?

You haven't missed any news.

[Sports Guy]

4 minutes ago, Frobby said:

I agree with your point about anything can happen, but I think this team is in much better position to continue contending than that 2014 team was.  Do you agree?

By the way, have we heard that Felix will require surgery and will miss the 2024 season, or is that just your assumption?  Did I miss some news?

I think it’s a pretty safe assumption and Elias basically said it with his “google UCL injury” comment.

And yea, I think we are in better shape to contend over a long period of time. Are we in better shape to contend in 2024 right now vs 2015 at this same point in 2014?  Im not so sure that’s true.  I think it’s close.

[Aristotelian]

54 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

There is a very obvious upgrade needed in the rotation.

I could buy into Snell for 3 years, but I also wouldn't be upset if Elias passes. He'd likely be an improvement over Wells/Irvin but I'd still rather go for a rental guy with no commitment. We have the trade assets to improve at the deadline if needed. 

Biggest priority for me is elite bullpen arm and Gunnar/Holliday extensions. 

[Frobby]

3 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

I think it’s a pretty safe assumption and Elias basically said it with his “google UCL injury” comment.

And yea, I think we are in better shape to contend over a long period of time. Are we in better shape to contend in 2024 right now vs 2015 at this same point in 2014?  Im not so sure that’s true.  I think it’s close.

What I have in mind is that we had four key players on expiring contracts, several experienced pitchers having career-best years, and generally an older team than the current one in terms of the key players.  That’s why I think this team is better positioned, not to mention the talent available in the minors is hugely better than anything we had in 2014.   

[Sports Guy]

13 minutes ago, Frobby said:

What I have in mind is that we had four key players on expiring contracts, several experienced pitchers having career-best years, and generally an older team than the current one in terms of the key players.  That’s why I think this team is better positioned, not to mention the talent available in the minors is hugely better than anything we had in 2014.   

Well you also had the Davis situation, Manny coming back, momentum from the season and thought they could spend? What were KG and Bundy going to be?

I would say this situation has the edge for the one year but for 2024 there are plenty of questions if you bring back the same team and the questions just got much bigger with our likely team MVP done for the year. The way this team wins, not having that elite closer at the end is absolutely huge.

Long term it’s obviously not close.

Edited August 29, 2023 by Sports Guy

[Malike]

8 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

Well you also had the Davis situation, Manny coming back, momentum from the season and thought they could spend? What were KG and Bundy going to be?

I would say this situation has the edge for the one year but for 2024 there are plenty of questions if you bring back the same team and the questions just got much bigger with our likely team MVP done for the year. The way this team wins, not having that elite closer at the end is absolutely huge.

Long term it’s obviously not close.

I'm not as worried about the rotation as you are, I guess. These guys are all young and inexperienced ML'ers with the exception of Irvin and Gibson. Is it out of the realm of possibility that GRod, Bradish, Wells, and Kremer aren't as good or even better next year? Now, I'd love to trade one of the MiL IF they aren't going to get time up here whether it's Ortiz, Westburg or Norby, it doesn't matter, but they should look to add controllable SP this offseason. There are always a million guys every off-season to pick up as bullpen arms. Our best relievers were all scrap heap guys, they aren't too hard to find.

[Sports Guy]

5 minutes ago, Malike said:

I'm not as worried about the rotation as you are, I guess. These guys are all young and inexperienced ML'ers with the exception of Irvin and Gibson. Is it out of the realm of possibility that GRod, Bradish, Wells, and Kremer aren't as good or even better next year? Now, I'd love to trade one of the MiL IF they aren't going to get time up here whether it's Ortiz, Westburg or Norby, it doesn't matter, but they should look to add controllable SP this offseason. There are always a million guys every off-season to pick up as bullpen arms. Our best relievers were all scrap heap guys, they aren't too hard to find.

I’m sold on Bradish and GRod will be very good as long as his arm holds up.

Kremer and Wells aren’t really that young anymore (not old but not young either, relatively speaking) but the peripherals and statcast numbers just aren’t great. Not sure how much I like their ability to hold up but I also am not replacing them with “just guys” either. Need real upgrades.

[Malike]

2 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

I’m sold on Bradish and GRod will be very good as long as his arm holds up.

Kremer and Wells aren’t really that young anymore (not old but not young either, relatively speaking) but the peripherals and statcast numbers just aren’t great. Not sure how much I like their ability to hold up but I also am not replacing them with “just guys” either. Need real upgrades.

They are on the team with years of control, you can't just send them to AAA. You definitely aren't trading them for superior starters, we have more IF than we can play, I guess they could look for OF upgrades, but it wouldn't be smart to trade them for BP arms.

[Sports Guy]

7 hours ago, Malike said:

They are on the team with years of control, you can't just send them to AAA. You definitely aren't trading them for superior starters, we have more IF than we can play, I guess they could look for OF upgrades, but it wouldn't be smart to trade them for BP arms.

Kremer will be in the rotation but personally, I would trade him.

Wells would go to the pen.