Steriod Problem

[miggyfan]

The union will never let it happen but this thing isn't going away until MLB does the drastic thing.

1. If there is evidence (not heresay) that you used steroids, all of your stats, records, awards for the season in which you tested positive should be stricken from the record books. i.e. that's 2001, 2002, 2003 for A Rod. That means all stats he accrued those seasons are gone. His 2003 MVP, stripped and given to the 2nd place vote getter.

2. A full season ban. 162 games, from the day it comes out.

3. Second offense, lifetime ban.

4. Do the same with HGH. We will eventually have a test for it.

[Mad Mark]

The union will never let it happen but this thing isn't going away until MLB does the drastic thing.

1. If there is evidence (not heresay) that you used steroids, all of your stats, records, awards for the season in which you tested positive should be stricken from the record books. i.e. that's 2001, 2002, 2003 for A Rod. That means all stats he accrued those seasons are gone. His 2003 MVP, stripped and given to the 2nd place vote getter.

2. A full season ban. 162 games, from the day it comes out.

3. Second offense, lifetime ban.

4. Do the same with HGH. We will eventually have a test for it.

For the sake of accuracy, you should have stopped with the bolded part. The guys who are inventing designer PEDs will always be one step ahead of the guys who are trying to catch them. It is what it is. Frankly, if they were able to come up with some kind of PED that promoted better recovery from injury--and was proven to be safe--I wouldn't object to it. (But it would have to be available to everyone.)

[Why Not?]

Screw it, positive test, three years. Some other sort of evidence, year ban.

[Spoonless]

1. If there is evidence (not heresay) that you used steroids, all of your stats, records, awards for the season in which you tested positive should be stricken from the record books. i.e. that's 2001, 2002, 2003 for A Rod. That means all stats he accrued those seasons are gone. His 2003 MVP, stripped and given to the 2nd place vote getter.

No. You can't go back and take Rodriguez's stats off the books. Maybe going forward you could have that as a penalty, but retroactively applying this would be wrong. Look, I get it. He is a fraud in your eyes. The fact remains that there are sure as heck a ton more players who used, and likely many HOF players who used as well.

Rodriguez was found to have used in 2003. At that point in time, the penalty for using steroids was only that the player were to receive treatment, and that he would not be named. You can't just go back and change the punishment for breaking the rules at that time.

Now, if you want to say that your stats for the season in which you are found to have used steroids would be stricken going forward (as in stats from any season in or after the year in which the rule is implemented), I guess I could accept that. But by no means should we be erasing players' stats from before the rule is added.

[byrdz]

The union will never let it happen but this thing isn't going away until MLB does the drastic thing.

1. If there is evidence (not heresay) that you used steroids, all of your stats, records, awards for the season in which you tested positive should be stricken from the record books. i.e. that's 2001, 2002, 2003 for A Rod. That means all stats he accrued those seasons are gone. His 2003 MVP, stripped and given to the 2nd place vote getter.

2. A full season ban. 162 games, from the day it comes out.

3. Second offense, lifetime ban.

4. Do the same with HGH. We will eventually have a test for it.

You're talking about doing this retroactively?? Setting up a rule and then dole out punishments to people for doing things in the past that violate a current rule? Good luck with that!

Considering you're a Tejada fan, should his records be stricken from the books?

[miggyfan]

Baseball is a game of history, a game of stats, a game of records...many people will agree that an asterist should be placed by any records set or broken by any player from "The Steroid era". Whether or not you agree that ARod's stats should be stricken, you have to agree that if he goes on to break Aarons record (yes I said Aarons record) that he should not be given full credit. The true baseball fan will never recognize these "records" that are being set by these cheaters. regardless of my fan status of Tejeda, he should be held to the same standards. Question...what if it came out, with proof that Babe Ruth or Henry Aaron used a corked bat all throughout their careers, should those records stand? Should those numbers mean anything anymore? I just feel that we (well MLB) I guess isn't tough enough. Look at Olympic medalists who are proven to have cheated....no footnote, just stripped of medal and record, that's what needs to be done with these morons.

[crawdad]

Yeah, it is not like the records are already stained with amphetamines, barring black folks, expansion, different baseballs, and what not.

This is really not something to get all frothy about.

[Spoonless]

Baseball is a game of history, a game of stats, a game of records...many people will agree that an asterist should be placed by any records set or broken by any player from "The Steroid era". Whether or not you agree that ARod's stats should be stricken, you have to agree that if he goes on to break Aarons record (yes I said Aarons record) that he should not be given full credit. The true baseball fan will never recognize these "records" that are being set by these cheaters. regardless of my fan status of Tejeda, he should be held to the same standards. Question...what if it came out, with proof that Babe Ruth or Henry Aaron used a corked bat all throughout their careers, should those records stand? Should those numbers mean anything anymore? I just feel that we (well MLB) I guess isn't tough enough. Look at Olympic medalists who are proven to have cheated....no footnote, just stripped of medal and record, that's what needs to be done with these morons.

Say what you will about Bonds and Rodriguez, but you can make a fairly decent argument that they were playing on a level playing field, as their 'roided up numbers were put up against 'roided up pitchers. Just look at Clemens for evidence of that. Are you saying that there are no pitchers who hold records or are in the HOF that doctored the ball to gain an advantage?

What about players (as stated earlier) who used cocaine and greenies? Do we strike their numbers? Do we go after players who sharpened their spikes?

Look, baseball is what it is. These things happened. The players used PEDs and hit home runs. They happened. To strike the records from the book is to ignore the whole steroid issue completely, and to pretend it never happened. That's just stupid. It's not like it's going to be forgotten what Bonds did/is accused to have done.

With regards to the IOC and the Olympics, the whole medal being taken away/records stricken thing is part of their punishment. I don't feel like looking it up, but since you're the one who mentioned it, perhaps you could tell me when they implemented that rule and if they went back in years before the implementation and changed the records. Like I said, if you want to apply the rule going forward, that's one thing. But to go back and levy additional punishment for actions that have already been dealt with is wrong. As far as I'm concerned, Rodriguez's name shouldn't have come out, as the rule until 2005 was that the players would not have their names released.

[miggyfan]

Yeah, I guess I'll stop getting all frothy:rolleyes:

Let's just let anybody do absolutely anything they want and have basically no consequences. I think alot of people will feel the same as I do...they can keep their "records", and they can have people justify their actions and talk about amphetamines, barring black folks, expansion, different baseballs, and what not, but it doesn't change the fact that they are cheaters and I as a baseball fan won't recognize the accomplishments of anyone who has been PROVEN to have cheated, hitters and pitchers alike. And that's all that matters to me.

[mweb]

I would just stick with the current system since I just don't care that much.

[Moose Milligan]

Someone explain to me how this is worse than Tim Raines doing coke during a game. This is a guy who's getting a lot of support for the HoF. So what are we saying, cokeheads in, steroid abusers out?

Someone explain to me how this is worse than anything that went on during the 80's with all the coke that was being passed around.

[mweb]

Someone explain to me how this is worse than Tim Raines doing coke during a game. This is a guy who's getting a lot of support for the HoF. So what are we saying, cokeheads in, steroid abusers out?

Someone explain to me how this is worse than anything that went on during the 80's with all the coke that was being passed around.

The explaination is that these are PED's, while I don't think cocaine would be classified that way.

From my point of view, I don't think it's right that this gets villified much more so than it does in football. I also don't think it's right that people ignore and/or don't care about PED usage in the past(pre 90's) in MLB and other forms of cheating.

[Moose Milligan]

The explaination is that these are PED's, while I don't think cocaine would be classified that way.

From my point of view, I don't think it's right that this gets villified much more so than it does in football. I also don't think it's right that people ignore and/or don't care about PED usage in the past(pre 90's) in MLB and other forms of cheating.

So PED's are worse than snorting a line during a game? Cocaine might not be classified as a PED, but it'll certainly wake you up and it's probably worse for your body than a steroid.

I agree, I think the NFL turns a blind eye to steroids...Merriman didn't get nearly this amount of scrutiny, his bust has been pretty much swept under the rug. IMO, its almost expected that NFL players juice.

[mweb]

So PED's are worse than snorting a line during a game? Cocaine might not be classified as a PED, but it'll certainly wake you up and it's probably worse for your body than a steroid.

I agree, I think the NFL turns a blind eye to steroids...Merriman didn't get nearly this amount of scrutiny, his bust has been pretty much swept under the rug. IMO, its almost expected that NFL players juice.

Worse from a competitive standpoint. But yes, it will wake you up, which is similiar to what greenies did, which the vast majority of players took from the 60's or so on.

I'm not blaming the NFL for turning a blind eye to steroids, I blame the fans and the media.

[Moose Milligan]

Worse from a competitive standpoint. But yes, it will wake you up, which is similiar to what greenies did, which the vast majority of players took from the 60's or so on.

I'm not blaming the NFL for turning a blind eye to steroids, I blame the fans and the media.

Why not blame the NFL? IMO, they're just as bad as MLB circa 1999-2001 for looking the other way.

Certainly the fans don't care, nor does the media.