This team is visibly gassed

[eddie83]

The Rays series I’m sure took a lot out of them. It did the same to the Rays as well. It’s a different kind of pressure and it could benefit them in October. 
 

Not like the team still isn’t fighting offensively. Pitching is tired. The defense last night had some odd plays. Santander slipping, Gunnar not playing hard hit off the mound. I think mentally they needs a break as much as a physical one. It has to be draining to be pushed like this and they haven’t gone thru it before.  

[Sports Guy]

And this is where the payroll stuff comes into play.

They have a little more margin for error but that margin for error could be better if they were playing the young guys over the vets that are getting and have been getting too many at bats.

 

Edited September 23, 2023 by Sports Guy

[Just Regular]

13 minutes ago, Too Tall said:

I for one am still trying to figure out how we are where we are.

Instead of being limited to 0.75 and 0.20 player-seasons of franchise players, having two of them upright all season helps.

After that all you really need is some Adam Frazier*

*or Kyle Bradish leveling up to All-Star.

[foxfield]

31 minutes ago, Too Tall said:

This is spot on - particularly this time of the year. Because, we have a team that is mostly in uncharted territory. Add in a long string of consecutive games against real good competition. A rain date would be nice but..... After last Sunday I couldn't help but think anything would be anti-climactic. Yet they nearly swept Houston.

The Orioles have given us a year we will not soon forget. I for one am still trying to figure out how we are where we are. I want them to win the division, but the world won't end if they don't. However they get to the playoffs, that experience will be a whole new story for this team as well. Justv don't assume this team can't!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 

This is where I am. They are tired. Pitchers especially. Feels like it’s a rough stretch but they are still plugging. They will be in the playoffs which is a huge surprise. That they are still leading the division and the AL overall is remarkable. 
 

Coupke more days and they will get a break. And they close with 6 games at home. 

[NashLumber]

6 hours ago, Can_of_corn said:

You can't plan to have position players pitch 4+ innings.

 

I don't understand why teams don't take advantage of the ability to forfeit games.  Sure you could only do it once before they'd amend the rules but as far as I know the team could just forfeit, take the 9-0 L and piss everyone else off.  Just don't do it at home. 

I suggested this in jest in the game thread, something like "if I had known it would be this exhausting" kind of thing. 

[DrungoHazewood]

5 hours ago, Three Run Homer said:

We can't use position players to pitch, but we can do the next best thing...

Give Jorge Lopez the start and leave him out there for 80 pitches.   Then DFA him and give him a full playoff share in thanks for his service.  

They could just Mike Oquist somebody. I don't know why I remember this game, but it's pretty obvious that Art Howe went to former Oriole Oquist before the game and told him the pen was pretty burnt out and he was going to get them five innings no matter what happened.  The 14 runs he allowed are tied with two others for the most runs any pitcher has allowed in a game in my lifetime (since 1971).

No one has allowed more than 14 runs in a game since 1944. Prior to that it happened 78 times in the retrosheet era (1901ish), and a lot of times before that. Most runs by one pitcher since 1901 are the 24 allowed by Allan Travers of the Tigers in the infamous Cobb strike game.

[DrungoHazewood]

7 hours ago, Can_of_corn said:

You can't plan to have position players pitch 4+ innings.

 

I don't understand why teams don't take advantage of the ability to forfeit games.  Sure you could only do it once before they'd amend the rules but as far as I know the team could just forfeit, take the 9-0 L and piss everyone else off.  Just don't do it at home. 

You know the Orioles had the last intentional forfeit in MLB history on 9/15/77.  Earl pulled the team off the field in Toronto (with the O's down 4-0 in the 5th) after some kind of dispute over a tarp in the bullpen, claiming it was a injury risk to the left fielder, Andres Mora. The ump told Earl he was being stupid, and Earl refused to put the team back on the field and they forfeited the game to the Jays. I've read somewhere that the league basically told Earl that if he pulled a stunt like that again he'd be done as a manager. Not sure how much truth there is to that...

If you're interested, here's a list of all the forfeits in MLB history. There have been two since 1977. Disco Demolition Night in Chicago, and free baseball night in 1995 at Dodger Stadium that ended up with souvenir balls all over the field.

[Can_of_corn]

3 minutes ago, DrungoHazewood said:

You know the Orioles had the last intentional forfeit in MLB history on 9/15/77.  Earl pulled the team off the field in Toronto (with the O's down 4-0 in the 5th) after some kind of dispute over a tarp in the bullpen, claiming it was a injury risk to the left fielder, Andres Mora. The ump told Earl he was being stupid, and Earl refused to put the team back on the field and they forfeited the game to the Jays. I've read somewhere that the league basically told Earl that if he pulled a stunt like that again he'd be done as a manager. Not sure how much truth there is to that...

If you're interested, here's a list of all the forfeits in MLB history. There have been two since 1977. Disco Demolition Night in Chicago, and free baseball night in 1995 at Dodger Stadium that ended up with souvenir balls all over the field.

I did know, but thanks for the list.

I'm guessing the ones from the 1880's were probably mostly because a team didn't have enough players to field a team.

Edited September 23, 2023 by Can_of_corn

[DrungoHazewood]

One more... if you look at the link in the last post, from the start of professional baseball in the 1870s until the old AL Orioles disbanded in 1902 the Orioles were involved in 14 forfeits. Not all of them were their fault.

Here's the last (not sure all the details are right, but it's close): 07/17/1902 - St. Louis at Baltimore - AL - Andrew Freedman, the owner of the National League New York Giants, with the help of the Baltimore manager, John McGraw, obtained controlling interest in the American League Baltimore club. They reassigned most of the Baltimore players to the Giants and others to the NL Cincinnati team. Only three players refused to go. Baltimore therefore could not field a team for the scheduled game with St. Louis and had to forfeit it. Ban Johnson, the AL President, then removed the Baltimore franchise from the league. He established a new team in the city to finish the season. Several AL teams supplied some of their surplus players to fill the roster. - Washington Post, 07/17/1902, p 9 (baseball ) - Chicago Daily Tribune, 07/18/1902, p 6

Also, Freedman was a real psycho with Tammany Hall NY political connections he wasn't at all shy about using. He's the guy who owned the Giants, got mad at HOF pitcher Amos Rusie one year and refused to pay him his salary which led to Rusie holding out for an entire year. Imagine if John Means got so mad at John Angelos he just refused to play for a whole season.

[Can_of_corn]

3 minutes ago, DrungoHazewood said:

One more... if you look at the link in the last post, from the start of professional baseball in the 1870s until the old AL Orioles disbanded in 1902 the Orioles were involved in 14 forfeits. Not all of them were their fault.

Here's the last (not sure all the details are right, but it's close): 07/17/1902 - St. Louis at Baltimore - AL - Andrew Freedman, the owner of the National League New York Giants, with the help of the Baltimore manager, John McGraw, obtained controlling interest in the American League Baltimore club. They reassigned most of the Baltimore players to the Giants and others to the NL Cincinnati team. Only three players refused to go. Baltimore therefore could not field a team for the scheduled game with St. Louis and had to forfeit it. Ban Johnson, the AL President, then removed the Baltimore franchise from the league. He established a new team in the city to finish the season. Several AL teams supplied some of their surplus players to fill the roster. - Washington Post, 07/17/1902, p 9 (baseball ) - Chicago Daily Tribune, 07/18/1902, p 6

Also, Freedman was a real psycho with Tammany Hall NY political connections he wasn't at all shy about using. He's the guy who owned the Giants, got mad at HOF pitcher Amos Rusie one year and refused to pay him his salary which led to Rusie holding out for an entire year. Imagine if John Means got so mad at John Angelos he just refused to play for a whole season.

So imagine James Harden as a baseball player?

[DrungoHazewood]

18 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

I did know, but thanks for the list.

I'm guessing the ones from the 1880's were probably mostly because a team didn't have enough players to field a team.

Looking at the list it appears that the 1800s forfeits included many, many disputes with umpires, crowds running onto the field, running out of balls, teams not showing up or not showing up on time, fights... More than anything it looks like massive arguments with the (one) umpire. There was a doubleheader at Washington in 1886 where Kansas City got the schedule mixed up and just didn't show up for the morning game.  In 1884 Cap Anson disagreed with a call on a baserunning play and just refused to keep going, so the ump had to forfeit.

There was a Providence-Philly game in 1883 where Providence just left in the 7th inning to go catch a train.

Edited September 23, 2023 by DrungoHazewood

[DrungoHazewood]

2 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

So imagine James Harden as a baseball player?

I guess so. But Harden just wants a trade, right? Rusie held out because his owner was a mentally unstable narcissist who got mad Rusie lost a game (how dare him), accused him of throwing the game with no evidence whatsoever, and on that basis fined him like half his season's salary. So it would be kind of like if Harden was holding out because his owner fined him $16M for basically no reason, and the other owners were like, sucks to be you but it's not our thing to worry about.

[Can_of_corn]

3 minutes ago, DrungoHazewood said:

I guess so. But Harden just wants a trade, right? Rusie held out because his owner was a mentally unstable narcissist who got mad Rusie lost a game (how dare him), accused him of throwing the game with no evidence whatsoever, and on that basis fined him like half his season's salary. So it would be kind of like if Harden was holding out because his owner fined him $16M for basically no reason, and the other owners were like, sucks to be you but it's not our thing to worry about.

My understanding is he has such a beef with the team President that he refuses to play for him.

He also evidently won't get paid if he sits out.

That seems pretty close to what you are talking about.

Edited September 23, 2023 by Can_of_corn

[DrungoHazewood]

1 minute ago, Can_of_corn said:

My understanding is he has such a beef with the team President that he refuses to play for him.

He also evidently won't get paid if he sits out.

That seems pretty close to what you are talking about.

I'm sure you know better than I do. I had to go Google what was going on. I'm only vaguely aware of the existence of the NBA.

[Can_of_corn]

1 minute ago, DrungoHazewood said:

I'm sure you know better than I do. I had to go Google what was going on. I'm only vaguely aware of the existence of the NBA.

Sure, and I don't know much myself.

It just seemed an apt comparison if you factor in the 100+ years difference.

Players today can't be abused and any hardship will have to be mostly self-inflicted.