Does this Tejada mess change things for Raffy...?

[LookitsPuck]

I think Palmeiro's biggest problem going forward is that you can't prove a negative. I don't know what he did and when he did it, but I am in the camp that finds his steroids saga odd and somewhat troubling.

Palmeiro tested positive for Stanozolol [Winstrol]. He can whine until the cows come home and try blaming it on other players or claiming he didn't know, but I don't by it one bit. He tested positive. He did steroids. And he knew damn well what he did. All of these guys did. Own up to it. Leave it at that.

[George]

Palmeiro doesn't belong in the HOF because he was not quite good enough a baseball player to merit the honor. He was not a perennial all-star. He was a gold glover a few times. But one gold glove was famously awarded to him despite not playing first base that year, thereby undermining fatally the value of all gold glove awards.

Palmeiro just wasn't as good a hitter as the very best hitters of the steroid ers. You should be the very best at your position for a number of years to merit the HOF. It's not necessary in Palmeiro's case to get into the steroid issue, as one should for Bonds and Clemens. The latter were the best hiiter and best pitcher of their era.

["Mickey" Manto]

Sure, I always "accidentally" buy my vitamin B12 from my neighbor and have my wife shoot it in me everyday...

Palmeiro is grown man, paid big bucks to play MLB. If he wanted vitamin B12, he should have gone to a doctor and acquired it legitimately.

I'm totally skeptical of the "accidental" part, which is why I put it in quotes. All I'm saying is that Miggi's current situation does lend credence to Raffy's excuse. However, it doesn't excuse the idiocy of taking something "without knowing" what it is or trusting a poorly educated Dominican ballplayer to be your pharmacist.

As many people have stated, the facts are the facts and Raffy tested positive. Canseco even pointed a finger at Raffy and Canseco seems to be a trustworthy source. It's very likely that Raffy was a knowing participant of steroid use for at least some portion of his career. All I'm saying is that maybe Raffy was stupid enough to take something from Tejada that he didn't realize were steroids...

[Rockbird]

No, it doesn't change anything.

1. Palmeiro came up positive for Stanozolol, which is IMPOSSIBLE to do without intentionally injecting yourself with the stuff. Tejada as far as I know was linked with testosterone and HGH but don't believe Stanozolol came up with him. The B-12 vials he had were tested and came up clean anyway.

2. Jose Canseco links Palmeiro's use to Texas and Canseco has been proven right about everything he's ever alleged.

3. Even if you want to believe Palmeiro's "tainted B-12" story, you're asking us to believe that a grown man, let alone a sophisticated athlete accepted an INJECTION of a substance he wasn't entirely sure of the contents of. Absurd. No one puts stuff in their body like that without knowing what it is, especially if you're an athlete and know there is drug testing. And if he did it anyway, then he's just an idiot and deserves to take the blame for his stupidity.

Face it, a significant percentage of the league juiced, it was just the culture. I'd venture to say a good portion are still on something, sophisticated designer steroids and HGH that cannot yet be detected past short term use. That's just the way it is. The better players still rise up, drugs or no drugs.

[OsEatAlEast]

Palmeiro tested positive for Stanozolol [Winstrol]. He can whine until the cows come home and try blaming it on other players or claiming he didn't know, but I don't by it one bit. He tested positive. He did steroids. And he knew damn well what he did. All of these guys did. Own up to it. Leave it at that.

Well since you said these players knew what they were taking. Then I guess Palmiero would have known that WinnyV is one of the steroids that will last the longest in your system. It's one of the worst steroids an athlete that is getting tested can take.

How many of you knew that? So it is either Palmiero was set up, or he was one of the dumbest men to play the game.

Not saying he didn't do them prior to the year he got caught. But all the markers just make it seem fishy to me.

[Rockbird]

How many of you knew that? So it is either Palmiero was set up, or he was one of the dumbest men to play the game.

Where's the set-up? If he actually accepted an INJECTION from another player without knowing the contents under the guise of "rehabilitation" and knowing full well that he was being drug tested and still went along with it, then yes, he is incredibly dumb. I think he intentionally used at a time after he was initially tested, and thought he would be in the clear for the rest of the season, but then they sprung another random test on him before his "cycle" was over. It's not that uncommon in sports. 103 players knew they were being tested and still came up positive. It's the culture, stop making excuses. If Palmeiro wanted to clear his name, he'd be out there clearing it. Instead he's fallen into obscurity.

[BillySmith]

I always though Raffy was very believable in his denials. Just looking at the guy and listening to him, I wanted to believe him. But I'm a little older now, hopefully a little wiser, and I don't think so anymore.

Canseco claimed there was one guy at the Senate hearings who flat out lied. I think we know who he was talking about. It may have been Sosa for claiming he didn't understand english, but it couldn't have been McGwire, who didn't answer anything. It was Palmeiro as he pointed his finger at the Senators and denied ever using. MHO.

[El Gordo]

Palmeiro doesn't belong in the HOF because he was not quite good enough a baseball player to merit the honor. He was not a perennial all-star. He was a gold glover a few times. But one gold glove was famously awarded to him despite not playing first base that year, thereby undermining fatally the value of all gold glove awards.

Palmeiro just wasn't as good a hitter as the very best hitters of the steroid ers. You should be the very best at your position for a number of years to merit the HOF. It's not necessary in Palmeiro's case to get into the steroid issue, as one should for Bonds and Clemens. The latter were the best hiiter and best pitcher of their era.

How many guys with 500+ HR and 3000 hits aren't in the HOF?

[dorfmac]

I definitely wouldn't be surprised if Palmeiro wasn't lying. Tejada is a snake piece of trash. Lieing about his age, now the 'roids - obviously he has no integrity, and I wouldn't put it past him to sabotage someone else - someone like Palmeiro with a great reputation. If Tejada had been tested and knew he failed, I wouldn't be surprised if he decided to take someone else down with him.

Either way, I don't care about this steroid stuff and never have. It happenned, everyone did it, and the sooner we just move on from this issue, the better. No matter what, people will find a way to cheat and dragging individuals through the mud like this isn't going to solve anything. Just move on.

[Rockbird]

I definitely wouldn't be surprised if Palmeiro wasn't lying. Tejada is a snake piece of trash. Lieing about his age, now the 'roids - obviously he has no integrity, and I wouldn't put it past him to sabotage someone else - someone like Palmeiro with a great reputation. If Tejada had been tested and knew he failed, I wouldn't be surprised if he decided to take someone else down with him.

Again, this "theory" assumes Palmeiro is THE STUPIDEST MAN ON EARTH. If I offered you a random NEEDLE to INJECT yourself with claiming it will give you energy and you willingly take it, you are an idiot and deserve whatever consequences befall you. Let alone if you were a PROFESSIONAL ATHLETE who knows what really gets passed around in locker rooms and knows there is drug testing, you'd be extra stupid.

The only plausible way this stupid excuse works is if Miggy ran up from behind Palmeiro while he was in the shower and stuck him with the needle. In which case, Palmeiro has a great case for assault and battery.

[dorfmac]

Again, this "theory" assumes Palmeiro is THE STUPIDEST MAN ON EARTH. If I offered you a random NEEDLE to INJECT yourself with claiming it will give you energy and you willingly take it, you are an idiot and deserve whatever consequences befall you. Let alone if you were a PROFESSIONAL ATHLETE who knows what really gets passed around in locker rooms and knows there is drug testing, you'd be extra stupid.

The only plausible way this stupid excuse works is if Miggy ran up from behind Palmeiro while he was in the shower and stuck him with the needle. In which case, Palmeiro has a great case for assault and battery.

While I agree that taking a random needle is a stupid move, being considered an idiot is much better than being considered an idiot AND a cheater.

EDIT: I guess I'm just more pissed at Tejada for being such a scumbag, which is partly why I feel obliged to defend Raffy.

[Mark Carver]

I definitely wouldn't be surprised if Palmeiro wasn't lying. Tejada is a snake piece of trash. Lieing about his age, now the 'roids - obviously he has no integrity, and I wouldn't put it past him to sabotage someone else - someone like Palmeiro with a great reputation. If Tejada had been tested and knew he failed, I wouldn't be surprised if he decided to take someone else down with him.

Either way, I don't care about this steroid stuff and never have. It happenned, everyone did it, and the sooner we just move on from this issue, the better. No matter what, people will find a way to cheat and dragging individuals through the mud like this isn't going to solve anything. Just move on.

I have no problem with Tejada not telling the truth about his age. If you grew up as a poor kid from the Domincan Republic and your only way off of the island is through baseball. You'd do the same thing. And

The Astros' media guide lists Tejada's birthday as May 25, 1976. However, Astros GM Ed Wade and Tejada both said the shortstop's green card, driver's license and other legal papers in the United States reflect his actual birthday as May 25, 1974.

Who exactly is lying about his age...

[Mark Carver]

Again, this "theory" assumes Palmeiro is THE STUPIDEST MAN ON EARTH. If I offered you a random NEEDLE to INJECT yourself with claiming it will give you energy and you willingly take it, you are an idiot and deserve whatever consequences befall you. Let alone if you were a PROFESSIONAL ATHLETE who knows what really gets passed around in locker rooms and knows there is drug testing, you'd be extra stupid.

The only plausible way this stupid excuse works is if Miggy ran up from behind Palmeiro while he was in the shower and stuck him with the needle. In which case, Palmeiro has a great case for assault and battery.

Testimony from Palmeiro himself is that his wife gave him the B12 injections.

[El Gordo]

To think that any of these players did not know what they were taking is absolute hogwash. They know what they did. They knew what they took. These are a major league baseball players and elite (at some point) players at that. They're not going to chance their career by taking something they don't know. They knew damn well what they were, they knew their doping schedules, they knew how to mask it with epi-testosterone. They knew that HGH and steroids together would get the best results.

Again, this "theory" assumes Palmeiro is THE STUPIDEST MAN ON EARTH. If I offered you a random NEEDLE to INJECT yourself with claiming it will give you energy and you willingly take it, you are an idiot and deserve whatever consequences befall you. Let alone if you were a PROFESSIONAL ATHLETE who knows what really gets passed around in locker rooms and knows there is drug testing, you'd be extra stupid.

The only plausible way this stupid excuse works is if Miggy ran up from behind Palmeiro while he was in the shower and stuck him with the needle. In which case, Palmeiro has a great case for assault and battery.

To knowingly have beeen a steroids user, willfully shake your finger in the face of Congress in denial, and then turn around and inject yourself again, qualifies as the stupidest man on earth. I don't think Raffy was that stupid.

[Rockbird]

To knowingly have beeen a steroids user, willfully shake your finger in the face of Congress in denial, and then turn around and inject yourself again, qualifies as the stupidest man on earth. I don't think Raffy was that stupid.

I'm not following. Let's assume Raffy has been clean as a whistle for his entire career which I don't believe, until that one faithful day where Tejada offered him some "injectable vitamins". At that moment, if Palmeiro injected himself with something he wasn't sure of the contents of, especially when he knows darn well what gets passed around in locker rooms (even if he himself didn't use, which I again don't believe), and knowing there is drug testing out there, to take that injection makes him the stupidest man on earth. If he wanted vitamins, which are perfectly legal, I'm sure the fine Orioles trainers on payroll could get him some vitamins. Get it?