Wigginton Official/Moore DFA

[LookitsPuck]

No, they can't. Otherwise, they'd be major leaguers and not AAAA players.

Ah, I get this great logic. It means that everyone in AAA who'd either be a great backup outfieler, utility player, or designated hitter for league minimum isn't worth a single look at all. I mean, it never, ever happens that a guy who is typically a guy who is a "AAAA" player isn't worth a lick, but players like Kevin Millar, Jay Payton, and the such are worth multimillion dollar contracts. I fully understand! It makes perfect sense!

I hate to be so cynical, but come on, man. Sometimes it's so much better to spend <$400k on a younger, more productive guy than overpaying for a "veteran presence". Look to the A's, Twins, and the like.

[elsid]

Signing 35 year old Will Clark was an absolute mistake in 1999. It further magnitude the frutility that the ballclub has done the past 11 season. Say what you want about what Pickering has done in the MLB or later in the years in the minors. The fact is that Pickering at age 21 at Bowie (AA) in 1998, hit -

309/425/566/991 - 139 G, 488 AB, 31 2B, 25 HR

And he deserved a shot to make the 1999 ballclub, but instead the ballclub decided to go with an aging veteran instead. Yes, Pickering pouted when he went to Rochester in 1999 and was never scene before, but still. He deserved a shot.

So, Will Clark was the beginning of the end of the O's? That was at or near the beginning of the current demise of 11 years of futility (or whatever you want to call it).

I won't deny that Pickering should have had a shot to make the club. Did he even get an invite to ST? The problem is, if you can't do it when you are called up, you don't get too many shots.

[elsid]

The Orioles got rained out in Texas last April & had to play an unscheduled doubleheader the next day as a result.

If memory serves, Moore was supposed to be in the lineup somewhere around there, but things changed because of the alterations to the schedule. I seem to recall one JTrea leading the "Trembley's a liar" charge at the time, and you were perhaps one of his cheerleaders.

As you can even discover by going to scottmoorefans.com and reading the articles posted there, the O's then had to move their starting rotation around in the fallout from the doubleheader, and called up Jim Johnson from AAA so that Matt Albers could start. (As an aside, Roch seemed a little baffled by it and speculated that Jim Johnson wouldn't even last the 10 days until Moore could be recalled. Oops)

Trembley is quoted in the article about how he communicated this decision making process to Moore, and raved about how well Scott handled it. In short, they thought he'd be better off getting regular AB's in AAA while the major league need for a fresh arm was greater. We all know about the variety of things that went wrong for Moore after that...none of them Dave Trembley's fault.

I don't know who or what your supposed source is supposed to be all about, but I do remember the inflammatory allegations you've spewed from time to time about Daniel Cabrera and Ramon Hernandez, and seem to remember you attributing some of your info to some girl imbibing alcoholic beverages in the same establishment as certain Orioles players. Forgive me if I'm choosing to take everything you post as an insider with at least a grain of salt.

Moore did play in TX last year. He played in two of the three games of that series. He went 1 for 6 with a HR, BB, and a K. He actually played in four of the first 8 games (1 for 8, HR, BB, 3K).

It was due to the DH in TX that he was sent down for the extra pitcher. The pitching and tilt-a-whirl at SS caused him not to come back up.

[LookitsPuck]

Gotta love the Orioles earlier in 1998/1999. They gave Calvin exactly 61 at bats to prove himself. Then goes on to tear it up with the Red Sox and the Royals.

[WordtotheBird]

Ah, I get this great logic. It means that everyone in AAA who'd either be a great backup outfieler, utility player, or designated hitter for league minimum isn't worth a single look at all. I mean, it never, ever happens that a guy who is typically a guy who is a "AAAA" player isn't worth a lick, but players like Kevin Millar, Jay Payton, and the such are worth multimillion dollar contracts. I fully understand! It makes perfect sense!

I hate to be so cynical, but come on, man. Sometimes it's so much better to spend <$400k on a younger, more productive guy than overpaying for a "veteran presence". Look to the A's, Twins, and the like.

You are a cranky son of a gun.

All I argued was the semantics - a AAAA will not be successfuly in the big leagues in any role. The minute player becomes successful in the big leagues, he has proven that he is not a AAAA player.

[elsid]

Ah, I get this great logic. It means that everyone in AAA who'd either be a great backup outfieler, utility player, or designated hitter for league minimum isn't worth a single look at all. I mean, it never, ever happens that a guy who is typically a guy who is a "AAAA" player isn't worth a lick, but players like Kevin Millar, Jay Payton, and the such are worth multimillion dollar contracts. I fully understand! It makes perfect sense!

I hate to be so cynical, but come on, man. Sometimes it's so much better to spend <$400k on a younger, more productive guy than overpaying for a "veteran presence". Look to the A's, Twins, and the like.

You would be suprised. Hardly anyone sees it that way. You get one shot as a "Quad A" player. If you don't impress, you don't stick around. You become senless trade fodder, along with minor league free agents. There are 10 to 20 times more of those than there are of the type that you are hoping for -- as in what you mention by "the A's, Twins and the like".

[TommyD4207]

Gotta love the Orioles earlier in 1998/1999. They gave Calvin exactly 61 at bats to prove himself. Then goes on to tear it up with the Red Sox and the Royals.

Pickering had 50 AB's with the Red Sox. Kudos to them for giving Pickering the chance the Orioles never did.

Hell, the Royals only gave him 149 AB's. They gave him 122 AB's and he put up an 838 OPS. Not bad, but by no means "tearing it up." They gave him 27 AB's in 2005 and said screw it. If the Orioles were to do this, I'm pretty sure you'd have a fit.

So no, just, no.

[LookitsPuck]

Moore did play in TX last year. He played in two of the three games of that series. He went 1 for 6 with a HR, BB, and a K. He actually played in four of the first 8 games (1 for 8, HR, BB, 3K).

It was due to the DH in TX that he was sent down for the extra pitcher. The pitching and tilt-a-whirl at SS caused him not to come back up.

Poor pitching handling that early in the season. As I said before, Moore was promised to start in 4 consecutive games (or 4 out of 5 games, something like that). Just because of the ridiculous roster handling by Trembley and the bench and the SS situation doesn't mean that Moore should have been disrespected like that.

I know I'll get some slack for this (and I continue to). I think the situation was handling poorly. The bullpen was handled terribly. The pitching situation was handling terribly (how many did we have on hand?). The bench was handled terribly. And Moore paid for it.

We can have 20/20 vision all we want regarding players like Cust, Knott, House, Montanez, Salazar, and Moore. But truth be told, we should be giving players like them chances rather than over the hill guys like the SS merry-go-round, Brandon Fahey (sorry, don't think he's a MLB, and I never will), and guys like Mora and Millar on a consistent basis.

[glorydays]

I'm sick of seeing this organization continue to cast aside players like Casey Blake, Jack Cust, Jon Knott, J.R. House, Oscar Salazar and Scott Moore, just because they've been labeled "AAAA" players. The Orioles don't seem to ever give these guys a fair shot to show what they have or they ask them to do things that don't play to these guys' strengths.

For an organization that's supposed to be looking for diamonds in the rough, the Orioles have stockpiled a lot of dirt without looking through it only to have it hauled off for fill somewhere else. Maybe if they'd actually screen some of it, they might find a diamond.

This organization is no different than other organizations. Sometimes you pick up a player and you get lucky and he performs... and other times they go onto other organizations and play well. Here are the other organizations that those that you mentioned played for.

Blake – Toronto, Minnesota (twice)

Cust – Arizona, Colorado, San Diego

Jon Knott – San Diego, Philadelphia, Minnesota

JR House – Houston, Pittsburgh

Oscar Salazar – Oakland, New York Mets, Detroit, Anaheim (twice), KC, Cleveland

Moore - Chicago, Detroit

[elsid]

Gotta love the Orioles earlier in 1998/1999. They gave Calvin exactly 61 at bats to prove himself. Then goes on to tear it up with the Red Sox and the Royals.

Honestly, you get about 50, possibly 100, unless you the next best thing since sliced bread. He kept putting up numbers in AA and AAA, so he kept getting a shot. However, he couldn't do the same thing in the bigs.

[LookitsPuck]

Pickering had 50 AB's with the Red Sox. Kudos to them for giving Pickering the chance the Orioles never did.

Hell, the Royals only gave him 149 AB's. They gave him 27 AB's in 2005 and said screw it.

So no, just, no.

How much time did the Red Sox give Pickering in their minors? Have the Red Sox been sucking that long? Hell, Kansas City didn't give him just 27 AB's, for the Royals:

2004: 122 AB's to the tune of an 838 OPS

In Boston he produced to the tune of an 859 OPS.

My point is the Orioles never give these guys a legitimate chance but overpay for guys like Millar and Payton day in and day out (until recently). I still think Mora's paycheck over the last few years didn't warrant his pay, and could have been replicated at a fraction.

[Boy Howdy]

Gotta love the Orioles earlier in 1998/1999. They gave Calvin exactly 61 at bats to prove himself. Then goes on to tear it up with the Red Sox and the Royals.

Huh? When he struck out 69 times in 199 official at bats?

The Red Sox let him walk as a free agent, and the Royals released him.

Pickering hurt his shoulder when the Orioles sent him down to play Clark, then injured his knee the following year. Carrying a minimum of 320-pounds on his large frame didn't help.

I would've liked to see him get more of a chance, but the reality of the situation is he was also waived by the Reds, released by the Mariners, and whiffed 130 times in 335 Triple-A at bats the last time he was seen in pro ball.

[LookitsPuck]

Honestly, you get about 50, possibly 100, unless you the next best thing since sliced bread. He kept putting up numbers in AA and AAA, so he kept getting a shot. However, he couldn't do the same thing in the bigs.

I just think when you're in a dire situation like the Orioles, you can afford to give guys like Pickering, Moore, Cust, House, Knott, Montanezx, Salazar chance for the league minimum instead of giving guys like Fahey (411 ABs over 3 years), Payton (772 Abs over 2 years), and Millar (just for his 2008 that sucked).

[LookitsPuck]

Huh? When he struck out 69 times in 199 official at bats?

The Red Sox let him walk as a free agent, and the Royals released him.

Pickering hurt his shoulder when the Orioles sent him down to play Clark, then injured his knee the following year. Carrying a minimum of 320-pounds on his large frame didn't help.

I would've liked to see him get more of a chance, but the reality of the situation is he was also waived by the Reds, released by the Mariners, and whiffed 130 times in 335 Triple-A at bats the last time he was seen in pro ball.

Please don't use strikeouts as a metric for determing a players worth unless he's putting up numbers like that of a Corey Patterson.

[Birdy09]

I hate to be so cynical, but come on, man. Sometimes it's so much better to spend <$400k on a younger, more productive guy than overpaying for a "veteran presence". Look to the A's, Twins, and the like.

I think the Orioles had a little more than 400K invested in Moore. As I recall they DFA'd Gibbons and ate about 12 million to keep Moore on the 25 man last year. So I can think of about 12 million reasons they should of given him another shot.