Who should come to the majors and when? Who should be traded?

[Sports Guy]

Below is a list of young positional players that are either here or, barring injury, should be ready no later than June 1 of next season:

Westburg

Ortiz

Gunnar

Kjerstad

Mayo 

Holliday 

Cowser

Norby

Stowers

Obviously Gunnar isn’t going anywhere, it’s just a matter of where is he going to play. I’m only including him just to have his name here for discussion purposes on what else you do around him.

I am not including Basallo, as I don’t think he’s ready (part of that being defined by the Os won’t be ready to call him up) by June but he is in the picture within the next 12-18 months imo.

So what do you do with these guys? Who stays? Who goes? When do you bring them up? How do you make room? Are you willing, in a WS contending year, to introduce several rookies to the lineup?

 

Edited October 11, 2023 by Sports Guy

[DirtyBird]

Trade:

Mullins

Mountcastle

O’Hearn

Urias

Mateo

 

Ortiz - UTL that can play all 3 spots

Westburg - 3B

Holliday - break camp w/ mlb squad, 2B

Norby - DH, spot 2B, LF

Mayo, Kjersted, Santander cover the 1B opening

[Sports Guy]

1 minute ago, DirtyBird said:

Trade:

Mullins

Mountcastle

O’Hearn

Urias

Mateo

 

Ortiz - UTL that can play all 3 spots

Westburg - 3B

Holliday - break camp w/ mlb squad, 2B

Norby - DH, spot 2B, LF

Mayo, Kjersted, Santander cover the 1B opening

Cowser just stay in the minors?  Mayo up on OD?

[DirtyBird]

24 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

Cowser just stay in the minors?  Mayo up on OD?

No, Cowser takes Mullins spot in CF on OD

Mayo up on OD

[baltfan]

Kjerstad and Cowser need to be up next year.  One of Hays, Santander, or Mountcastle needs to be traded.  Frazier needs to be gone.  Ortiz needs to be up.  Norby needs to be up if he has a good spring.  If so, then you trade Mateo or Urias in the spring. 

Mayo and Holliday start in the minors.  Mayo comes up maybe in the middle of June after more work at first or the triumvirate of Ortiz, Westburg, or Norby can't hold down third, you bring up Mayo.  If no injuries, you send down whichever of Ortiz, Westburg, or Norby is playing worst.  Holliday does the Gunnar special and comes up on August 30.  

[casadeozo]

Kjerstad and Mayo ideally are on the team getting full time at bats by May.

Ideally Mountcastle and Urias are both gone at a minimum. Though not sure how much value either have. Mouncastles lack of patience and inability to take fastball up was glaring in this series. 

 

[24fps]

26 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

Below is a list of young positional players that are either here or, barring injury, should be ready no later than June 1 of next season:

Westburg

Ortiz

Gunnar

Kjerstad

Mayo 

Holliday 

Cowser

Norby

Stowers

 

Keep Gunnar, Kjerstad, Mayo, Holliday.  They should be considered untouchable and everybody else can be traded - Westburg and Ortiz for really solid value or keep them

Mayo up in mid 2024

Holliday breaks camp with the team in 2025

Gunnar and Kjerstad on MLB roster all of 2024

Westburg is starting 2B if not traded and Ortiz Utility if not traded.  Nothing wrong with keeping both of them, but the organization needs to augment the pitching side in the minors.  Indifferent about Cowser, Norby and Stowers so if they're traded I hope it's for the same target - pitching.

[casadeozo]

1 minute ago, DirtyBird said:

No, Cowser takes Mullins spot in CF on OD

Mayo up on OD

zero chance they had CF to Cowser after his play there this year. 

[foxfield]

The debate on who goes depends on the return. I think everyone hopes we upgrade SP, RP. 
 

To me one of the big things is how much growth do you think you get from the young guns with the bat?  We needed more pop and it’s possible that comes with growth of Gunnar, Rutschman and Kjerstad. Is that enough?  Do they intend to keep Santander?

I think it is inevitable that at least one of Westburg/Ortiz/Cowser/Kjerstad goes in a trade. I also think it’s likely one of the other ready players Norby/Stowers goes. 
 

How many depends on who is kept between Mountcastle /O’Hearn Santander/Hays and of course Mateo. 
 

I think we will get a mix but it could go lots of different ways. As you have noted @Sports Guy, they could also package existing pitching to improve pitching. 
 

We were pretty healthy compared to Tampa. You cannot have too much pitching. We are really going to see if we intend to horde prospects this winter.  

Edited October 11, 2023 by foxfield

[clapdiddy]

I may be reading into this too much, but I get the feeling that Cowser, Stowers and Ortiz are going to be traded.   They didn't really give any of them enough time to get adjusted to playing at the MLB level.

I think if Holliday looks the part in the spring, they will bring him north.  Now, will he be playing 2B or SS?   I haven't seen much of his infield play, but I'd be surprised if he's better than Gunnar at SS.  I think you'll see the infield being Westburg at 3B, Gunnar at SS, and Holliday at 2B.   Urias will be the backup infielder.   I hope that Mateo is dealt.

Based on your list, I think Kjerstad is now here to stay unless he has a horrible spring.  I see Mayo and Norby returning to AAA, but I wouldn't be surprised to see either of them up at a relatively early part of the season.   Norby to me, is still a bit of a wildcard.   Would he be someone they may look to deal?   What player(s) could you acquire in a Norby/Cowser/Ortiz deal?  

Now, if Mouncastle, Santander, Mullins, or Hays are moved, what I've said could blow up, but I guess that's what happens when we are speculating. 

 

[baltfan]

2 minutes ago, clapdiddy said:

I may be reading into this too much, but I get the feeling that Cowser, Stowers and Ortiz are going to be traded.   They didn't really give any of them enough time to get adjusted to playing at the MLB level.

I think if Holliday looks the part in the spring, they will bring him north.  Now, will he be playing 2B or SS?   I haven't seen much of his infield play, but I'd be surprised if he's better than Gunnar at SS.  I think you'll see the infield being Westburg at 3B, Gunnar at SS, and Holliday at 2B.   Urias will be the backup infielder.   I hope that Mateo is dealt.

Based on your list, I think Kjerstad is now here to stay unless he has a horrible spring.  I see Mayo and Norby returning to AAA, but I wouldn't be surprised to see either of them up at a relatively early part of the season.   Norby to me, is still a bit of a wildcard.   Would he be someone they may look to deal?   What player(s) could you acquire in a Norby/Cowser/Ortiz deal?  

Now, if Mouncastle, Santander, Mullins, or Hays are moved, what I've said could blow up, but I guess that's what happens when we are speculating. 

 

Stowers is definitely gone.  They obviously don't like his fielding.  I am kinda concerned they feel the same about Kjerstad since they wouldn't let him play in the field.

[Sports Guy]

13 minutes ago, baltfan said:

Kjerstad and Cowser need to be up next year.  One of Hays, Santander, or Mountcastle needs to be traded.  Frazier needs to be gone.  Ortiz needs to be up.  Norby needs to be up if he has a good spring.  If so, then you trade Mateo or Urias in the spring. 

Mayo and Holliday start in the minors.  Mayo comes up maybe in the middle of June after more work at first or the triumvirate of Ortiz, Westburg, or Norby can't hold down third, you bring up Mayo.  If no injuries, you send down whichever of Ortiz, Westburg, or Norby is playing worst.  Holliday does the Gunnar special and comes up on August 30.  

You are going to wait on bringing up the best prospect in the sport until the end of the year when there is a reasonable argument that he can make the OD roster?  Why?

[Can_of_corn]

1 minute ago, Sports Guy said:

You are going to wait on bringing up the best prospect in the sport until the end of the year when there is a reasonable argument that he can make the OD roster?  Why?

Have to manipulate his service clock.

That's more important than winning.

[Aristotelian]

Start with the low hanging fruit. Frazier will be gone. That should create an opening for an infielder, and a need for a lefty bat. Long term, Holliday would be the perfect fit for that spot, but if Elias wants to keep Holliday down, he could start with Ortiz.

Next up, Mateo/Urias. Both guys offer versatility and positive WAR overall productions, but not much beyond that. Mateo is already making $2M and will be slightly more expensive. Then again, Urias might have slightly more trade value. I think one of them will not be with us on opening day, creating a second opening.

On a net basis, then, we would need two infielders, preferably one lefty and one righty. I think Ortiz should be one of the two on opening day. Holliday almost certainly will be the other by the end of the year, but the question is when. 

One guy we haven't talked much about is O'Hearn. He started to regress by the end of the year and hit a wall in the playoffs. Feels like he may have hit his peak and even that added up to only 1.2 WAR. He will be due an arb raise, and do we even have room for a strict platoon 1B? He could be nontendered or traded for minimal return. That could open a spot for Cowser or Kjerstad to enter the OF/DH rotation on opening day. That would leave us thin at 1B but see if Elias continues to stockpile 1B types along with Diaz/Lester at Norfolk. 

[baltimoriole]

14 minutes ago, casadeozo said:

zero chance they had CF to Cowser after his play there this year. 

My hope is Cowser takes over LF and they trade Hays. We're stuck with Mullins one more year. No one in the system can play CF and Bradfield needs at least a year to work his way up (fingers crossed).

Unrelated, I enjoyed O'Hearn's career year, but the chances of repeating his 2023 performance are what, 5%?

I'd prefer an outfiled of Cowers, Mullins, Kerjstad with Santander DH and platoon 1b when a righty is pitching. Keep Mountcastle.