Will Matusz be an ACE?

[bigbird]

Well, you have reported several times that, according to your source, many in the organization thought that Arrieta could make the club out of spring training. So, that suggests that the folks you are in contact with are very high on Arrieta.

Is there another basis for your prediction? I have to say, I'm very high on the guy also, but that's mainly because I was so impressed with how he marched into the Arizona Fall League and just dominated in his first taste against professional competition. I just think that shows the kind of competitor Arrieta is, and that's not always something you can judge with a radar gun or by knowing how many plus pitches a guy has.

Just that he's the best pitcher I've ever seen come through Frederick.

[bigbird]

I have never heard of a reliable source that has said anything about Matusz having a straight fastball . I talked to a major league scout from a different organization who saw Matusz in the AFL and he never said anything about a straight fastball. In fact, he said the guy was major league ready and was the second best pitcher the Orioles have behind Guthrie right now.

You also don't put up the kind of numbers that Matusz put up in college with a straight fastball. Even college hitters can hit a straight fastball, especially one that doesn't have extreme velocity and the one thing Matusz doesn't have is the overpowering fastball velocity-wise.

Lastly, the one things that I've found from Joe Jordan's draft picks is that most of them have pretty good movement on their fastballs. I highly doubt Jordan would have taken Matusz or that Matusz would have been rated by just about every publication as the top pitching prospect if he had a straight fastball.

I'm not bashing Law because respect him as a scout, but I'm not sure where he got that straight fastball. Saying that, I haven't seen him pitch live so until I do, I'll just say the evidence suggests Matusz does not have a straight fastball. It may not have extreme movement, but it's can't be a Brad Pennington straight fastball.

Hey Tony.... think we'll see another starter with the #5 pick in June???

[Sports Guy]

Hey Tony.... think we'll see another starter with the #5 pick in June???

This is going to depend on who is there when we pick.

There is no way this team will pass on Grant Green if he falls to us.

[bigbird]

This is going to depend on who is there when we pick.

There is no way this team will pass on Grant Green if he falls to us.

Is he a Boras client.....

[Moose Milligan]

I have never heard of a reliable source that has said anything about Matusz having a straight fastball . I talked to a major league scout from a different organization who saw Matusz in the AFL and he never said anything about a straight fastball. In fact, he said the guy was major league ready and was the second best pitcher the Orioles have behind Guthrie right now.

You also don't put up the kind of numbers that Matusz put up in college with a straight fastball. Even college hitters can hit a straight fastball, especially one that doesn't have extreme velocity and the one thing Matusz doesn't have is the overpowering fastball velocity-wise.

Lastly, the one things that I've found from Joe Jordan's draft picks is that most of them have pretty good movement on their fastballs. I highly doubt Jordan would have taken Matusz or that Matusz would have been rated by just about every publication as the top pitching prospect if he had a straight fastball.

I'm not bashing Law because respect him as a scout, but I'm not sure where he got that straight fastball. Saying that, I haven't seen him pitch live so until I do, I'll just say the evidence suggests Matusz does not have a straight fastball. It may not have extreme movement, but it's can't be a Brad Pennington straight fastball.

That's cool Tony, thanks for that.

I just remember reading it on here before, somewhere. I can't remember where it was posted or who was quoted but I do remember reading it and raising my eyebrow at it.

Brad Pennington....thats a name from the past and one I don't really care to remember. Remember that bomb he gave up to Jr? He wound up on that Nike commercial, it must have been his career highlight. :laughlol:

[zff4]

When I hear "no movement on his fastball" I immediately think of Jorge Julio who had the flattest fastball of any O I can recall. Sure did have a nice arc going out though.

[Frobby]

Just that he's the best pitcher I've ever seen come through Frederick.

Fair enough -- did you get to quite a few of his games? I really wanted to see him but didn't.

[Camden_yardbird]

Personally, and I don't know half of what most of you know about what a pitcher should look like, I think all three of those guys have #2 stuff.

I think whether a guy becomes an Ace has more to do with the mental side of the game than anything else.

Certainly an Ace has to have a certain level of physical ability. But once that level is met than what kind of pitcher they become depends completely on their abilty to handle a game, handle the pressure, and handle their own emotions.

Thats why you find guys with so many different skill sets at the tops of rotations. From Greg Maddux to CC Sabithia there are a wide variety of pitchers who can step up and become an elite pitcher.

[bigbird]

Fair enough -- did you get to quite a few of his games? I really wanted to see him but didn't.

About 5 or 6. He was outstanding.

[TJ Wrangler]

In this thread I suppose will have a mixture of:

1. What is an ACE

2. Who are good examples

3. Does Matusz fit the mold?

4. Do we have others?

This is from Keith Law's Top 100 Prospects (Weiters #1, Sweetness!!!)

Though Matusz's only pro experience to date came in the Arizona Fall League because he signed late, he's the type of pitcher who can move very quickly through the minors because of his plus secondary stuff, the likes of which many A-ball hitters only see in nightmares.

Matusz throws the kitchen sink at hitters, and none of his pitches is below-average. His fastball sits in the low 90s and touches 94; it's straight, but he'll cut it in the upper 80s for a different look. He throws and commands an 11/5 (1/7 if you prefer, since he's left-handed) curveball with very tight rotation; it breaks downward very late, so a left-handed hitter thinks it's going to be inside only to find himself directed benchward after a called third strike. He has excellent arm speed on his changeup and the pitch has both tumble and fading action.

So why isn't Matusz higher on this list? One reason is the lack of pro experience, which means we have very little idea of his timetable beyond projecting his stuff. The other is his fastball; the velocity is fine, but it's straight, and he has to spot it well or rely more heavily on his secondary stuff, an approach that can work but has some drawbacks, like the increased stress on an elbow from throwing a lot of breaking balls.

His arm action is short and he keeps his pitching elbow low, and the Orioles have cleaned him up -- keeping him more upright through his delivery -- since he signed, so I'm optimistic that he can handle a lifetime of pitching a little bit backwards and develop into a No. 1 or 2 starter.

:mwahaha:

http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/insider/columns/story?columnist=law_keith&id=3847430

Was there any specific reason why you quoted a post of mine from another page that you managed to avoid in that page. Kind of seems like you're trying to poke some sort of response out of me.

You also seem to reference nothing in my post. I'll be honest with you, I don't agree with your assessment and evaluations of pitchers, but that is not a reason to quote me in an attempt to provoke me into responding for whatever reason you wanted to drag me into this.

[amateurfan]

Was there any specific reason why you quoted a post of mine from another page that you managed to avoid in that page. Kind of seems like you're trying to poke some sort of response out of me.

You also seem to reference nothing in my post. I'll be honest with you, I don't agree with your assessment and evaluations of pitchers, but that is not a reason to quote me in an attempt to provoke me into responding for whatever reason you wanted to drag me into this.

He used it as a basis for defining an ACE. There wasn't any maliciousness in the opening post. Take it as a compliment that he used your stuff.

[Fairfax Bird]

I'm going on record as saying that Arrieta will end up being a better major league pitcher than either Matusz or Tillman.

Kind of hard to judge this, have you ever seen Matusz or Tillman pitch? You've seen Arrietta quite a few times so I am happy you think he will be the best of the bunch, but without really seeing either of the other two it is just a guessing game.

That said, I said Cole Hamels and I have never seen Matusz pitch.

[Fairfax Bird]

Was there any specific reason why you quoted a post of mine from another page that you managed to avoid in that page. Kind of seems like you're trying to poke some sort of response out of me.

You also seem to reference nothing in my post. I'll be honest with you, I don't agree with your assessment and evaluations of pitchers, but that is not a reason to quote me in an attempt to provoke me into responding for whatever reason you wanted to drag me into this.

I think you are overreacting, he is trying to spark a good conversation on what an ace is, not provoke you.

[TJ Wrangler]

I think you are overreacting, he is trying to spark a good conversation on what an ace is, not provoke you.

He used it as a basis for defining an ACE. There wasn't any maliciousness in the opening post. Take it as a compliment that he used your stuff.

Well I know we have had disagreements before, but if that is the case, I apologize. I just thought he was doing something odd because he didn't really respond to those posts in the thread we were talking about.

My B!

[TJ Wrangler]

In this thread I suppose will have a mixture of:

1. What is an ACE

2. Who are good examples

3. Does Matusz fit the mold?

4. Do we have others?

This is from Keith Law's Top 100 Prospects (Weiters #1, Sweetness!!!)

Though Matusz's only pro experience to date came in the Arizona Fall League because he signed late, he's the type of pitcher who can move very quickly through the minors because of his plus secondary stuff, the likes of which many A-ball hitters only see in nightmares.

Matusz throws the kitchen sink at hitters, and none of his pitches is below-average. His fastball sits in the low 90s and touches 94; it's straight, but he'll cut it in the upper 80s for a different look. He throws and commands an 11/5 (1/7 if you prefer, since he's left-handed) curveball with very tight rotation; it breaks downward very late, so a left-handed hitter thinks it's going to be inside only to find himself directed benchward after a called third strike. He has excellent arm speed on his changeup and the pitch has both tumble and fading action.

So why isn't Matusz higher on this list? One reason is the lack of pro experience, which means we have very little idea of his timetable beyond projecting his stuff. The other is his fastball; the velocity is fine, but it's straight, and he has to spot it well or rely more heavily on his secondary stuff, an approach that can work but has some drawbacks, like the increased stress on an elbow from throwing a lot of breaking balls.

His arm action is short and he keeps his pitching elbow low, and the Orioles have cleaned him up -- keeping him more upright through his delivery -- since he signed, so I'm optimistic that he can handle a lifetime of pitching a little bit backwards and develop into a No. 1 or 2 starter.

:mwahaha:

http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/insider/columns/story?columnist=law_keith&id=3847430

I just wanted to apologize to you personally. I had a pretty jammed packed day trying to reach and deal with O'Leary, so I was a little defensive when I saw you quoted something I was using in a debate with you. Hopefully there are no hard feelings. I'll hook you up with a few positive rep hits or something.

Again, I'm sorry for overreacting.