O's didn't give Red Sox permission to talk to Sig for GM job

[foxfield]

44 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

If Sig wanted to interview and they didn't allow it, I think it's a loss for the team.  If you are looking for a job and have options why would you pick Baltimore if you know they won't let you advance?

 

As long as we are being hypothetical…while I agree it would be a bad look for the O’s if Sig wanted to at least chat with Boston and was not allowed, no one should be surprised.  Least of all Sig. 

 

I am not really worried about it. I think if he wanted to interview he would have been allowed. The other possibility simply does not make sense even for an Angelo’s. 

[Since1984]

42 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

Was a hypothetical situation.

I get it, which is why I left the Sig caveat (his contract was expired too). Plenty of good people have been promoted with this understanding, but I am not privy to any contract terms/extensions and believe Sig was promoted in the last two years.

If the Organization is acting in a nefarious way, I believe those actions will create long-term consequences in a negative way.

[Malike]

Sig could tweet he wasn't interested in leaving the O's and there would still be another 30 pages coming about how the O's denied him the chance and he was probably lying.

[Can_of_corn]

Just now, Malike said:

Sig could tweet he wasn't interested in leaving the O's and there would still be another 30 pages coming about how the O's denied him the chance and he was probably lying.

What are you talking about?

I think everyone on here is open to the possibility that Sig had no interest in the job.

This is also a thread that has reached..let me check..all of three pages in the last day.

[Malike]

7 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

What are you talking about?

I think everyone on here is open to the possibility that Sig had no interest in the job.

This is also a thread that has reached..let me check..all of three pages in the last day.

You've been here long enough to know exactly what I'm talking about. The entire off-season is spent making speculative posts, the fact that this is 3 pages is dumb enough in itself. We love to take stories about nothing and run with them for weeks.

[Can_of_corn]

2 minutes ago, Malike said:

You've been here long enough to know exactly what I'm talking about. The entire off-season is spent making speculative posts, the fact that this is 3 pages is dumb enough in itself. We love to take stories about nothing and run with them for weeks.

I've been around long enough to know that the board isn't active enough at this time of the off-season for a topic like this to get 30 pages worth of traction.

[Malike]

1 minute ago, Can_of_corn said:

I've been around long enough to know that the board isn't active enough at this time of the off-season for a topic like this to get 30 pages worth of traction.

If I cared enough to do the work, I'm sure I could find more than a handful or 10.

[24fps]

3 hours ago, Can_of_corn said:

If they slow-rolled approval it is absolutely a bad look, I'd say a worse look than outright denying permission.

The industry norm is to allow folks to interview for promotions.

Would you have felt that way if Elias had been denied the chance to interview with the O's?

If the O's are not doing that and not even being upfront about it, yea it could impact the caliber of applicant they get in the future.

Frankly it sound like how Peter did things.

 

 

I missed the part about the delayed response.  Slow-rolling is unprofessional, shouldn't happen and definitely is a bad look.

The industry norm is for permission to be granted for possible promotions, but the societal norm is for contracts to be honored and that is where the emphasis ought to be placed IMO.  I despise the phrase "it's just business" but there are times when it's appropriate and preventing a genuinely key executive from being poached would be one of them.

Elias wasn't under contract when he interviewed with the O's so it's a moot point.  I believe the same was true with Sig but I'm not sure.  If Sig was under contract and prevented from following ME then that would be regrettable but in no way outrageous.

[drjohnnyfever1]

3 hours ago, Can_of_corn said:

If Sig wanted to interview and they didn't allow it, I think it's a loss for the team.  If you are looking for a job and have options why would you pick Baltimore if you know they won't let you advance?

 

That wasn't the story.  The story was that the Sux wanted something from us and we said no.

I won't speculate on a what if Sig wanted something, but given how I feel about our ownership and whether they would manage to put a crowbar in their wallet if he did, I'm grateful that their answer to the Sux was a simple, "No."

I am on record stating that if there is a pile of sh!t within a country mile of John Angelos he will likely step in it.  For now, he has side stepped it.

[Tony-OH]

11 hours ago, drjohnnyfever1 said:

That wasn't the story.  The story was that the Sux wanted something from us and we said no.

I won't speculate on a what if Sig wanted something, but given how I feel about our ownership and whether they would manage to put a crowbar in their wallet if he did, I'm grateful that their answer to the Sux was a simple, "No."

I am on record stating that if there is a pile of sh!t within a country mile of John Angelos he will likely step in it.  For now, he has side stepped it.

Not only step on it, but then call a news conference and talked about it, most likely after something good happened on the field for his ballclub. But I disgress.

Since we don't know who does what in the FO and it's always described as a "team effort," there is no way of knowing exactly how much Sig has been involved in the Orioles success so far. My inclination is that his Sig-bot computer system has been helpful and that he's a quality part of the FO, but I honestly don't know. 

I do know that unless the system is so secretive that only he knows about it, that Elias has hired a lot of smart people around him so to some extent, some of that Sig knowledge should be disseminated a bit and understood by others. That's not to say Sig is or is not vital to the Orioles success, just that the longer someone works with others, they should in fact become replaceable to some extent.

I get the feeling that Sig is not the "wants to be in charge overall" kind of guy. I think he likes being that "smartest guy in the room" advising moves and staying a bit in the shadows. Now, I could be wrong, but like with any true leadership position, it takes a healthy amount of leadership qualities to pull that off, something Elias has proven he's quite capable of doing at a high level.

As for this situation being anything like the Dan Duquette situation, is apples to oranges in my opinion. In Duquette's situation, the Blue Jays reportedly went directly to Duquette while under contract and offered him a "promotion" and a larger salary which Duquette wanted the Orioles to match. The problem was, this is Angelos we are talking about so instead of making a quick decision and getting a back to business, he was furious at Duquette for even entertaining the offer and then wanted a couple of top prospects in exchange for allowing Duquette to leave.

That process ended up dragging on and the Orioles were frozen in terms of making moves and watched Andrew Miller, Nelson Cruz and Nick Markakis leave while they basically stood pat that main offseason. Duquette then lost his real power in the organization and the three-headed monster developed with Buck and Brady via for behind the scenes influence. This corresponded with Duquette, in a last ditch effort to get back influence and control, making the awful Davies-Parra trade on a team that was going nowhere. 

So no, I don't think these situations are remotely the same. 

Without knowing what really drives Sig or knowing what his ultimate goals are, it's hard to know how this situation will affect him. It's possible he has no desire to leave Elias and the Orioles and maybe together they were like, "Let's slow play the response" in order to leaving the Red Sox on hold a bit before interviewing others? Who knows?

The one that seems pretty obvious is that Elias and Sig seem to be a package deal and with the success they are having, perhaps neither want that partnership to end. 

Saying all of that, while I don't wish to see Sig leave, we are getting the point where Sig's skill sets have not been challenged yet. Can his system identify the right prospects to trade and identify the right players that can get the Orioles over the hump and have success in the playoffs?

All I know is the Orioles were legitimate World Series contenders at the trading deadline and all they did was get Jack Flaherty and Fuji and held onto all of their top trading chips. We've heard that Sig likes to hoard prospects and so far, that's what the Orioles have done despite having a multitude of major league ready prospects blocked in AAA this year. 

This offseason should give us a little bit of glimpse because if this offseason looks anything like last offseason (Gibson, Frazier, Givens, and the trade for McCann) and they go into 2024 with the logjam still vs using some prospect chips to acquire veteran impact players (At least one top Starter, reliever and MOO) then if the team fails again come playoff time next year, we will have question whether the strategy works in October.

 

[Guest]

If I were Duquette I'd definitely have some negative feelings towards this organization, he is no longer in baseball and much of that can be attributed to the Orioles ownership and how they treated him.

Personally always thought, when allowed to operate as a GM normally should, Duquette was a good a general manager. I lay those last few years directly at the feet of the Angelos family.

What's Brady Anderson doing nowadays?

Edited October 30, 2023 by MDS29

[OriolesMagic83]

Sources say that the Red Sox have moved on to their next 2 top choices, HAL 3000 and Skynet.

[RZNJ]

They certainly let Ciolek leave but this does have an Angelos feel to it.  Perhaps losing Ciolek made it more difficult to let a 2nd high ranking employee go.  I’m not too concerned about it UNLESS it somehow left Elias feeling unhappy about the situation.

[wildcard]

5 minutes ago, OriolesMagic83 said:

Sources say that the Red Sox have moved on to their next 2 top choices, HAL 3000 and Skynet.

Red Sox hired Craig Breslow as GM.

https://www.mlb.com/news/red-sox-craig-breslow-head-of-baseball-operations

[wildcard]

5 minutes ago, RZNJ said:

They certainly let Ciolek leave but this does have an Angelos feel to it.  Perhaps losing Ciolek made it more difficult to let a 2nd high ranking employee go.  I’m not too concerned about it UNLESS it somehow left Elias feeling unhappy about the situation.

Ciolek was not an Elias hire.  He was hired by Duquette.

 Elias, Sig and Holt came over together from Houston.   Those three's relationships run deep.