I’ve Come Around on 13 Pitchers

[mweb]

Well, none of those guys have to be cut anyway.

Hill, Pauley, Guthrie, Uehera and Hendrickson

Baez, Walker, Penn, JJ, Sherrill, Ray, Sarfate

That's 12 and probably the most likely 12.

So, Penn, Hill and Pauley stay, as do the 3 vets.

Keeping a 13th would mean keeping another scrub...which is a bad idea.

Not if Patton or Albers is ready to go. I also wouldn't consider all of the other guys in contention scrubs.

[Sports Guy]

So if Simon or Bass pitch 18 innings in ST with a 1.5 ERA and good k/rate..Bass looks like he did in his starts last year and Simon looks like he did over the winter. You would rather carry Montantez over either one of these guys, on a team that has nothing to lose and everything to gain with regards to pitching?

I never mentioned Montanez....He won't be on the team because of Freel.

Why do you keep asking me these questions? There isn't a scenario out there that where I think it will be smart to carry 13 pitchers when we come north.

[Sports Guy]

Not if Patton or Albers is ready to go. I also wouldn't consider all of the others guys in contention scrubs.

Well, if that is the case, then Sarfate, Baez and Walker are next on the list, perhaps in that order.

[mweb]

I never mentioned Montanez....He won't be on the team because of Freel.

Why do you keep asking me these questions? There isn't a scenario out there that where I think it will be smart to carry 13 pitchers when we come north.

You've probably posted it, but I don't recall, what's your ideal bench?

[Sports Guy]

You've probably posted it, but I don't recall, what's your ideal bench?

My ideal bench? My idea bench doesn't exist on this current team.

But the bench I think they should probably have is Freel, Moeller(or whoever), Murphy and Wigginton.

[mweb]

My ideal bench? My idea bench doesn't exist on this current team.

But the bench I think they should probably have is Freel, Moeller(or whoever), Murphy and Wigginton.

Well I was asking about your ideal bench using the guys we have.

I know it's not likely, but what if someone shows they can play an adequate SS?

[Sports Guy]

Well I was asking about your ideal bench using the guys we have.

I know it's not likely, but what if someone shows they can play an adequate SS?

[mweb]

If Wigginton, Freel, or Mora can play an adequate SS, therefore not needing Murphy.

[Sports Guy]

If Wigginton, Freel, or Mora can play an adequate SS, therefore not needing Murphy.

Then keep Lou.

[Boy Howdy]

1986 wasn't that long ago, right?

Teams voluntarily went to a 24-man roster that season. Can't recall specifically, but I think it last a couple/few years.

My how things have changed...

[Sports Guy]

I'm asking you these questions becuase you are saying it makes no sense under any circumstances.

Find it hard to believe you can't see how carrying a pitcher like Simon or Bass that the organization feels has potential going forward but is out of options, as the 13th pitcher, is better than carrying the 4th man on whatever your "ideal bench" is.

Well, neither of those guys are likely anything to worry about going forward...Neither of them are likely to be claimed at the end of ST and if they feel that highly about them, then you get rid of Sarfate, Walker or Baez.

[Anonymous]

I never mentioned Montanez....He won't be on the team because of Freel.

Why do you keep asking me these questions? There isn't a scenario out there that where I think it will be smart to carry 13 pitchers when we come north.

The SG strategy basically comes down to this:

1. Even if we get a great ST performance out of any of the Albers, Bass, Hennessey, Liz, Parrish, Patton, Simon group (of whom Bass, Parrish, and Simon are unoptionable), we shouldn’t even CONSIDER the idea of keeping one of them, as we would definitely be better off upgrading at backup SS for 2009 alone from Wigginton or Freel to Murphy.

2. If it turns out that Wigginton or Freel are adequate enough to allow us not to do the upgrade to Murphy, then we should still not even consider keeping any of those pitchers, as we should then keep Montanez -- whose role on the team would be ???, and who would probably be helped more by a full year at Norfolk, learning to play a better LF, than just about any position player I can think of, maybe along with Reimold.

3. As a caveat, if any of those pitchers is so terrific that we feel we absolutely need to keep one, then we should ditch either Sarfate or Baez or Walker, as you just don’t think it ever makes sense to try claw back dollars from a bad contract (except for some reason you were okay with it on the Bradford deal).

***

Let’s say I grant you the benefit of any doubt that Murphy would be a better backup SS for 2009. The question, then, is how that helps you for 2010. Are you grooming Murphy to be our long-term utility guy? Is that a more valuable strategy for the future than preserving whichever pitcher winds up exactly on the bubble as # 13?

At the end of ST, we’ll know plenty more than we know now about whether all of these guys have been so putrid that we just don’t care what happens with any of them. But if it turns out otherwise, you’re just willing to toss them aside because you just happen to KNOW this.

[Sports Guy]

The SG strategy basically comes down to this:

1. Even if we get a great ST performance out of any of the Albers, Bass, Hennessey, Liz, Parrish, Patton, Simon group (of whom Bass, Parrish, and Simon are unoptionable), we shouldn’t even CONSIDER the idea of keeping one of them, as we would definitely be better off upgrading at backup SS for 2009 alone from Wigginton or Freel to Murphy.

2. If it turns out that Wigginton or Freel are adequate enough to allow us not to do the upgrade to Murphy, then we should still not even consider keeping any of those pitchers, as we should then keep Montanez -- whose role on the team would be ???, and who would probably be helped more by a full year at Norfolk, learning to play a better LF, than just about any position player I can think of, maybe along with Reimold.

3. As a caveat, if any of those pitchers is so terrific that we feel we absolutely need to keep one, then we should ditch either Sarfate or Baez or Walker, as you just don’t think it ever makes sense to try claw back dollars from a bad contract (except for some reason you were okay with it on the Bradford deal).

***

Let’s say I grant you the benefit of any doubt that Murphy would be a better backup SS for 2009. The question, then, is how that helps you for 2010. Are you grooming Murphy to be our long-term utility guy? Is that a more valuable strategy for the future than preserving whichever pitcher winds up exactly on the bubble as # 13?

At the end of ST, we’ll know plenty more than we know now about whether all of these guys have been so putrid that we just don’t care what happens with any of them. But if it turns out otherwise, you’re just willing to toss them aside because you just happen to KNOW this.

Let's just say that you are vastly overrating the "bubble guys" and leave it at that.

Most of these guys would make it through waivers and the ones who don't, you can easily replace.

I provided a list of pitchers who are younger and likely have better upside than all of these guys and that is just for the pen.

So, since you are talking about players who aren't good, I am inclined with going with what is best for the team right now.

If Freel or Wigginton miraculously show they can handle SS 20+ games a year, then keep Montanez.

[LA2]

The Orioles waited too long to deal Penn

A few years ago, there was every reason to believe that Penn would reach fruition with the Os. Then he kept getting injured and so even if they wanted to trade him they would not have gotten anything as valuable as if, still, at this late date, he finally comes through.

[Ven6]

Let's just say that you are vastly overrating the "bubble guys" and leave it at that.

Most of these guys would make it through waivers and the ones who don't, you can easily replace.

I provided a list of pitchers who are younger and likely have better upside than all of these guys and that is just for the pen.

So, since you are talking about players who aren't good, I am inclined with going with what is best for the team right now.

If Freel or Wigginton miraculously show they can handle SS 20+ games a year, then keep Montanez.

Montanez would be the 7th OF on this team.