Dylan Cease

[E-D-D-I-E]

4 minutes ago, Roll Tide said:

Did anyone suggest a 1 for 1? I think I said that the trade simulator says Mayo for Cease would be an equal trade.

Why do you feel this is pointed at you? Just my opinions my friend. Not directed at anyone.

Thought I read some where in this board, that Cowser was too much. TBH,  Mayo is not an equal trade either. I would just as well say "Mayo" in replace of Cowser.

[Roll Tide]

46 minutes ago, E-D-D-I-E said:

Why do you feel this is pointed at you? Just my opinions my friend. Not directed at anyone.

Thought I read some where in this board, that Cowser was too much. TBH,  Mayo is not an equal trade either. I would just as well say "Mayo" in replace of Cowser.

I just used Mayo as an example because the trade simulator has him really close to Cease. I dont trade them Mayo because I think hes going to be a star. If I'm the White Sox I'd want 2-4 players for Cease with the best quality I can get. I dont blame them or the posting fan. The key for the Orioles in my opinion is knowing which guys are the ones that are winners and upgrade using the others.

[Chicago White Sox]

11 hours ago, OriolesMagic83 said:

Do you think a trade package headlined by Kjerstad and Ortiz would be enough?  3rd piece would be a player outside O's top 10 like Povich or Beavers.  It's always good to get another team's fan's perspective.  I think O's fans like most team's fans overvalue their own prospects and players and undervalue those of other teams.

I think it depends on the third piece and whether Getz can get and/or is willing to hold out for a better centerpiece.  Kjerstad is an interesting prospect and being a LH outfielder with plus power is something the Sox really need.  He lacks the ceiling of Mayo though and I’d rank him as a 55 FV type prospect given his profile and question marks.  If paired with Ortiz and a 45 FV guy as the third piece (someone likely in the 11 to 15 range of your system), then I could see a deal being possible.

[Chicago White Sox]

12 hours ago, Frobby said:

To the contrary, I appreciate it when a knowledgeable fan of another team comes here and gives their perspective on players from their team and ours, especially when they do it in a respectful way.  It’s a very good reality check.  I wish we had more fans of other teams coming on here and doing the same.  

For me, Cease is a talented pitcher but his tendency to run high pitch counts and make early exits makes him a bit less valuable than his ERA and peripheral numbers otherwise would suggest.  
 

Appreciate that.  

As for Cease, the walks do get frustrating at times and that is part of the reason he has averaged ~5.4 innings per start over the past three seasons.  And while I’d love to see him average closer to six (beyond that isn’t realistic given his high K rate), he does make up for that shortfall by being incredibly durable.  He’s made 97 starts over the past three years and isn’t a guy I’d expect to wear down come October.

[CP0861]

11 hours ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Appreciate that.  

As for Cease, the walks do get frustrating at times and that is part of the reason he has averaged ~5.4 innings per start over the past three seasons.  And while I’d love to see him average closer to six (beyond that isn’t realistic given his high K rate), he does make up for that shortfall by being incredibly durable.  He’s made 97 starts over the past three years and isn’t a guy I’d expect to wear down come October.

It's probably easier to make 97 starts in 3 years when you walk 4 batters a game and only pitch 5 full innings. 

I don't understand the infatuation with him. If he had another year or two of control, then that's a little better, but judging by his career numbers vs AL East teams, he's a 4.50 era guy in this division.

His 2022 numbers were partially fueled by feasting on AL central teams (40% of his starts) before the schedule change.

From what I've read, his fb (and slider) velocity dropped a full mph in 2023 and his slider lost effectiveness and wasn't the same as 2022.

I don't want to give up 2 top prospects for a 4.5 era guy with only 2 remaining years of control and his best 2 pitches showing decline.

 

 

Edited November 7, 2023 by CP0861

[RZNJ]

2 minutes ago, CP0861 said:

It's probably easier to make 97 starts in 3 years when you walk 4 batters a game and only pitch 5 full innings. 

I don't understand the infatuation with him. If he had another year or two of control, then that's a little better, but judging by his career numbers vs AL East teams, he's a 4.50 era guy in this division.

His 2022 numbers were partially fueled by feasting on AL central teams (40% of his starts) before the schedule change.

From what I've read, his fb velocity dropped a full mph in 2023 and his slider lost effectiveness.

I don't want to give up 2 top prospects for a 4.5 era guy with only 2 remaining years of control and his best 2 pitches showing decline.

 

 

I find your argument a bit funny.  You are basically saying he’s not that good but you might be interested if he had 3 or 4 years of team control instead of 2.

[CP0861]

29 minutes ago, RZNJ said:

I find your argument a bit funny.  You are basically saying he’s not that good but you might be interested if he had 3 or 4 years of team control instead of 2.

 

More time under control equals more value. I don't love the guy, but that's still common sense. How is that funny?

[RZNJ]

51 minutes ago, CP0861 said:

 

More time under control equals more value. I don't love the guy, but that's still common sense. How is that funny?

If you don’t think he’s good why would you want him for more years?  Just say you don’t want him at all.

[Frobby]

6 minutes ago, RZNJ said:

If you don’t think he’s good why would you want him for more years?  Just say you don’t want him at all.

It’s like the merchant who loses money on every sale but makes it up on volume.  

[CP0861]

27 minutes ago, RZNJ said:

If you don’t think he’s good why would you want him for more years?  Just say you don’t want him at all.

You've twisted my words. Two different times now.

I never said I "might be interested if he had 3 or 4 years".....I never said that I "want him for more years".....and I never said I "don't think he's good."

He could certainly be good. He's been good before. I just don't like some of his statistical flags and I don't like the idea of trading 2 top prospects for a question mark with a short window of control. It's not rocket science to understand.  The same point about him only having 2 years of control was made or mentioned multiple times in the other Cease thread. 

Anytime you reply to someone with something like "You are basically saying", you should probably stop and re-read what was literally written/said and reply to that versus your twisted version. Everything I wrote was pretty straight forward. There was no need for an alternative interpretation. Lol. I wasn't "basically saying" any of what you claimed that I was.

 

[RZNJ]

15 minutes ago, CP0861 said:

You've twisted my words. Two different times now.

I never said I "might be interested if he had 3 or 4 years".....I never said that I "want him for more years".....and I never said I "don't think he's good."

He could certainly be good. He's been good before. I just don't like some of his statistical flags and I don't like the idea of trading 2 top prospects for a question mark with a short window of control. It's not rocket science to understand.  The same point about him only having 2 years of control was made or mentioned multiple times in the other Cease thread. 

Anytime you reply to someone with something like "You are basically saying", you should probably stop and re-read what was literally written/said and reply to that versus your twisted version. Everything I wrote was pretty straight forward. There was no need for an alternative interpretation. Lol. I wasn't "basically saying" any of what you claimed that I was.

 

“If he had another year or two of control, then that's a little better“

“I don't want to give up 2 top prospects for a 4.5 era guy with only 2 remaining years of control and his best 2 pitches showing decline.“

Ok. Clear this up for me.  Do his years of service time have anything to do with wanting him or not wanting him for the suggested package?   Both quotes impliy that it does.

 

Edited November 7, 2023 by RZNJ

[Roll Tide]

1 hour ago, RZNJ said:

If you don’t think he’s good why would you want him for more years?  Just say you don’t want him at all.

I don’t think anyone is saying he sucks. I’m concerned about the walks. The drop in velocity could be cause for concern or nothing more than a guy learning how to pitch as opposed to throw. I’d feel more comfortable giving Up multiple players in our top 10 if I had more than 2 years of control. 
 

The Sox fan would require a 3rd player beyond Kjerstad and Ortiz if you read his post. Not that his opinion matters anymore than someone else here. But, we have the best farm in baseball. So expecting 2 top 10, with one being top 100, and a 10-15 guys which would be a top 10 in many teams systems is a laugher to me for a good but certainly not an elite pitcher. If that’s the cost of a number 2/3 type I’d hope Elias can talk Angelos into a guy like Gray. 

Edited November 7, 2023 by Roll Tide