Cease vs everyone else

[ChicagoTerp]

At this point, if the WS are insisting on getting Kjerstad, Mayo, or Basallo, that's their right, but I won't fault the O's for passing on that.

If Cease can be had while leaving those 3 out of the deal, and the O's still pass, I would say criticism of Elias would be warranted.

Of course we probably will never know what the case is, unless a trade gets done.

[Roll Tide]

8 minutes ago, ChicagoTerp said:

At this point, if the WS are insisting on getting Kjerstad, Mayo, or Basallo, that's their right, but I won't fault the O's for passing on that.

If Cease can be had while leaving those 3 out of the deal, and the O's still pass, I would say criticism of Elias would be warranted.

Of course we probably will never know what the case is, unless a trade gets done.

I don’t think that’s certain either. How would you feel about. Cowser/Westburg, Ortiz, Norby, and Bradfield? 
 

I wouldn’t blame Elias for saying no. 
 

I think I’d do Cowser, Norby, and McDermott/ Povich, and someone in out 20-25 range. 

[btdart20]

1 hour ago, RVAOsFan said:

 

Sounds like @Can_of_cornadvocating for the MLBPA.

[Mooreisbetter27]

1 hour ago, RVAOsFan said:

 

I don’t really like Rosenthal and I was about to bash him based on the “quote” in this tweet. But boy is it misleading to what he actually was saying. Just reading that, you’d think that was how Rosenthal was thinking “just give them whatever they want”. He clearly wasn’t making that point at all. 

[ChicagoTerp]

9 minutes ago, Roll Tide said:

I don’t think that’s certain either. How would you feel about. Cowser/Westburg, Ortiz, Norby, and Bradfield? 
 

I wouldn’t blame Elias for saying no. 
 

I think I’d do Cowser, Norby, and McDermott/ Povich, and someone in out 20-25 range. 

Good point. There are a few trades not involving those 3 that would also be too much.

I am also operating under the assumption that Elias would never consider liquidating our entire IF or OF depth in one trade.

[RZNJ]

Why are so many ok with trading Westburg and not Kjerstad?   Is it strictly the RH LH batter thing?   Westburg was just as highly rated, has more speed and defensive value and I would argue that his power is not far behind Kjerstad.   Also, the wall will hurt Kjerstad as well as he likes to go left center quite a bit.   

[waroriole]

6 minutes ago, RZNJ said:

Why are so many ok with trading Westburg and not Kjerstad?   Is it strictly the RH LH batter thing?   Westburg was just as highly rated, has more speed and defensive value and I would argue that his power is not far behind Kjerstad.   Also, the wall will hurt Kjerstad as well as he likes to go left center quite a bit.   

I prefer to keep Westburg. I assume part of the reason people have a different opinion is the glut of ML ready IF, but I’d say Westburg would play a better OF and 1B than Kjerstad. He’s hit just as well as Kjerstad at every level too. 

[Roll Tide]

8 minutes ago, ChicagoTerp said:

Good point. There are a few trades not involving those 3 that would also be too much.

I am also operating under the assumption that Elias would never consider liquidating our entire IF or OF depth in one trade.

I don’t think Kjerstad, Mayo, or Basallo are available. I’d be very surprised if Westburg was traded … if he was I would not send 3 other players with him. Westburg hit in the majors and played good defense. I expect to see his OBP & Power take a significant uptick this year. 
 

 

[waroriole]

You know, if the White Sox had traded Cease to us after 2022, they could have got Basallo as like a 2nd or 3rd piece in a trade. 

[ChicagoTerp]

12 minutes ago, RZNJ said:

Why are so many ok with trading Westburg and not Kjerstad?   Is it strictly the RH LH batter thing?   Westburg was just as highly rated, has more speed and defensive value and I would argue that his power is not far behind Kjerstad.   Also, the wall will hurt Kjerstad as well as he likes to go left center quite a bit.   

For me it's the power, which I think we lack at the ML level. Maybe I am underestimating Westburg's power potential though.

[G54377]

I think we have identified a grouping of players we are willing to trade and just waiting out CWS to agree to a package within that. Elias has a line in the sand with the top X rated guys and just isn't going to trade them, at least not for Cease.

[RZNJ]

2 minutes ago, ChicagoTerp said:

For me it's the power, which I think we lack at the ML level. Maybe I am underestimating Westburg's power potential though.

60 homers and a .506 slugging pct. In 317 minor league games.  17 doubles in 228 PA in the majors.   

[AnythingO's]

re: RZNJ's post: I think the WS board prefers Westburg or HK in a trade because they both hit OK in their MLB debuts so it's easier for them to project success vs Cowser or Ortiz. Most of us are sick of all the Cease talk and just want something done to make it stop. For me it's Cowser and/or Ortiz that are available, not Westburg or HK. I believe in HK's bat over Cowser from a power perspective and average, Cowser will have a better BB percentage. I love Ortiz but his time is now and I don't believe Elias -Hyde would move ROY Gunnar off his preferred position for Joey. That moves Westburg to 3B to make room for Joey at 2B. Westburg is better at 3B than anyone not named Gunnar. What happens when Holiday come up. Joey to Util? That would be a poor use of a prospect asset unless Joey just doesn't hit, but I believe he will. Joey should be a starting SS in 2024 somewhere, probably not here because of Gunnar-Holiday.

[Roll Tide]

28 minutes ago, ChicagoTerp said:

For me it's the power, which I think we lack at the ML level. Maybe I am underestimating Westburg's power potential though.

27 homers 2 years ago and 18 before his call up. That didn’t happen by mistake. The power will ge there you can count on it 

[Roll Tide]

13 minutes ago, AnythingO's said:

re: RZNJ's post: I think the WS board prefers Westburg or HK in a trade because they both hit OK in their MLB debuts so it's easier for them to project success vs Cowser or Ortiz. Most of us are sick of all the Cease talk and just want something done to make it stop. For me it's Cowser and/or Ortiz that are available, not Westburg or HK. I believe in HK's bat over Cowser from a power perspective and average, Cowser will have a better BB percentage. I love Ortiz but his time is now and I don't believe Elias -Hyde would move ROY Gunnar off his preferred position for Joey. That moves Westburg to 3B to make room for Joey at 2B. Westburg is better at 3B than anyone not named Gunnar. What happens when Holiday come up. Joey to Util? That would be a poor use of a prospect asset unless Joey just doesn't hit, but I believe he will. Joey should be a starting SS in 2024 somewhere, probably not here because of Gunnar-Holiday.

They prefer a LH based on that preference being over and over again.