Cease vs everyone else

[Moose Milligan]

He can have Kjerstad and Westburg and nothing else, and that's cause I'm feeling generous despite the fact that he's wasted my time and pissed me off.  Getz can go kick rocks if he wants lotto tickets thrown or an arm thrown in.  

16 minutes ago, RZNJ said:

  Cease guarantees us nothing.   We’d like to have him but we don’t have to have him.

Really, it boils down to this for me, too.  

[SoxFan3344]

47 minutes ago, Malike said:

That certainly changes the picture some, but I don't know how realistic it is. I'm sure Getz would want some lotto tickets or high upside youngins thrown in.

I’m sure he’s asking for as much as possible, as he or any GM should. I know I’m on an Orioles forum and most of you guys will side with Elias but from Getz standpoint, this being his first big time move, and with how much backlash there’s been for the previous regime, he has to ace this trade. If he thinks that only happens with Kjerstad + Westburg + pitcher + lotto ticket then so be it, have some conviction and stick to your guns. Getz knows the Sox should trade Cease, but until Cease requests a trade the Sox hold all the leverage. With that being said for those of you who don’t want Cease, you’ll probably get your wish. 

Edited January 19 by SoxFan3344

[oriolefan1035]

If you include Tyler Wells, plus John Means SSS, we have 5 SPs coming back that all had lower ERAs than Cease last year. If you take out 2022, Cease looks like a very middle of the road pitcher. He’s not a front line starter like some are building him up to be. The smoke around him is exhausting. We should move on.

[ChicagoTerp]

1 minute ago, oriolefan1035 said:

If you include Tyler Wells, plus John Means SSS, we have 5 SPs coming back that all had lower ERAs than Cease last year. If you take out 2022, Cease looks like a very middle of the road pitcher. He’s not a front line starter like some are building him up to be. The smoke around him is exhausting. We should move on.

Look, I'm as big of an Oriole homer as there is, but Cease has swing and miss stuff that none of our guys have. Will it be there in Game 2 of the ALDS? Maybe, maybe not, but at least if we get him, there's a chance. Let's not lie to ourselves and pretend he couldn't bring something very valuable to this team.

[oriolefan1035]

4 minutes ago, ChicagoTerp said:

Look, I'm as big of an Oriole homer as there is, but Cease has swing and miss stuff that none of our guys have. Will it be there in Game 2 of the ALDS? Maybe, maybe not, but at least if we get him, there's a chance. Let's not lie to ourselves and pretend he couldn't bring something very valuable to this team.

You need some really exceptional swing and miss stuff if you’re going to carry a 1.42WHIP…

[Malike]

13 minutes ago, SoxFan3344 said:

I’m sure he’s asking for as much as possible, as he or any GM should. I know I’m on an Orioles forum and most of you guys will side with Elias but from Getz standpoint, this being his first big time move, and with how much backlash there’s been for the previous regime, he has to ace this trade. If he thinks that only happens with Kjerstad + Westburg + pitcher + lotto ticket then so be it, have some conviction and stick to your guns. Getz knows the Sox should trade Cease, but until Cease requests a trade the Sox hold all the leverage. With that being said for those of you who don’t want Cease, you’ll probably get your wish. 

You're welcome here, no hostility at all, well from me, anyway. Getz needs to hit on this trade, I agree. I've said he should be trading Robert as well, they could essentially cut the rebuild down to a couple of years with the returns from Cease and Robert.

I know from browsing your forums that outside of Holliday and Mayo, most people there think our prospects aren't very good, despite having the best farm in baseball by more than a little bit. Most of us here also know that prospects bust, and we have some that are going to as well, so holding onto everyone thinking they will all become stars is a fool's errand.

I also don't think our team is nearly as bad as almost everyone on your site does and some here actually, if we don't get Cease. He's not going to be the difference maker for us by himself and we're likely to get close to his value from in-house options. Our pitchers are young and have been improving each year and I expect that to continue.

I'm not averse to trading our top prospects, well, I wouldn't want to trade Holliday/Mayo/Basallo, but everyone else I'd move in the right package, I just feel like if we're giving up Cowser/Kjerstad and Westburg, plus, we should be looking at pitchers with more years of control.

[SoxFan3344]

14 minutes ago, ChicagoTerp said:

Look, I'm as big of an Oriole homer as there is, but Cease has swing and miss stuff that none of our guys have. Will it be there in Game 2 of the ALDS? Maybe, maybe not, but at least if we get him, there's a chance. Let's not lie to ourselves and pretend he couldn't bring something very valuable to this team.

Last 3 years: 32 starts + 200 Ks not easy to come by unless you’re willing to spend $125 mil+ and still have him for 2 full seasons. Again to each their own though, if you can’t get over the walks then so be it but I think you guys have a good enough offense/defense to overcome that

[Malike]

3 minutes ago, SoxFan3344 said:

Last 3 years: 32 starts + 200 Ks not easy to come by unless you’re willing to spend $125 mil+ and still have him for 2 full seasons. Again to each their own though, if you can’t get over the walks then so be it but I think you guys have a good enough offense/defense to overcome that

The real question is what is he in 2024? In 2021 12K/9, 2022 11K/9, 2023 10K/9. The downward trend is a little disconcerting, plus, he doesn't throw many innings. He makes his starts, but he's not an innings eater, he isn't pitch-efficient at all.

[oriolefan1035]

2 minutes ago, SoxFan3344 said:

Last 3 years: 32 starts + 200 Ks not easy to come by unless you’re willing to spend $125 mil+ and still have him for 2 full seasons. Again to each their own though, if you can’t get over the walks then so be it but I think you guys have a good enough offense/defense to overcome that

We have a solid young core and very low payroll. We should be augmenting through FA at this point. Someone like Snell or Gray should have been the target from the onset this offseason in my opinion. I’m not opposed to trading some of the top prospects. Cease just isn’t that guy I’d do it for. Most of our core will be here the next 5+ years. I don’t want to sacrifice several high end guys to get a middle rotation arm for 2 years. I’d want more years of control or a higher end target along the lines of a Gerritt Cole.

[SoxFan3344]

6 minutes ago, Malike said:

You're welcome here, no hostility at all, well from me, anyway. Getz needs to hit on this trade, I agree. I've said he should be trading Robert as well, they could essentially cut the rebuild down to a couple of years with the returns from Cease and Robert.

I know from browsing your forums that outside of Holliday and Mayo, most people there think our prospects aren't very good, despite having the best farm in baseball by more than a little bit. Most of us here also know that prospects bust, and we have some that are going to as well, so holding onto everyone thinking they will all become stars is a fool's errand.

I also don't think our team is nearly as bad as almost everyone on your site does and some here actually, if we don't get Cease. He's not going to be the difference maker for us by himself and we're likely to get close to his value from in-house options. Our pitchers are young and have been improving each year and I expect that to continue.

I'm not averse to trading our top prospects, well, I wouldn't want to trade Holliday/Mayo/Basallo, but everyone else I'd move in the right package, I just feel like if we're giving up Cowser/Kjerstad and Westburg, plus, we should be looking at pitchers with more years of control.

My only thought against this is if I’m the GM of the Marlins (Luzardo) Mariners (Gilbert) I’m going with those two because those are the only ones I can think of that have ace upside with more control, Keller (Pirates) is way too unproven IMO, I’m asking for Mayo/Basallo as the start because that extra year(s) of control. I think Cease is a perfect meeting point for what they should and would be willing to give up. If Mayo and Basallo are truly not on the table then you’re limiting who’s truly available to you. 

[Malike]

1 minute ago, SoxFan3344 said:

My only thought against this is if I’m the GM of the Marlins (Luzardo) Mariners (Gilbert) I’m going with those two because those are the only ones I can think of that have ace upside with more control, Keller (Pirates) is way too unproven IMO, I’m asking for Mayo/Basallo as the start because that extra year(s) of control. I think Cease is a perfect meeting point for what they should and would be willing to give up. If Mayo and Basallo are truly not on the table then you’re limiting who’s truly available to you. 

Fair points and I'm not the GM, and I didn't sleep at a Holiday Inn last night. I'm just saying personally, I'd not want to trade any of those three. I have no idea what Elias would do to get a younger pitcher with top-of-the-rotation stuff and 3+ years of control or if they are even being made available. Cease would slot in nicely, but our season isn't over if we don't get him. That's my opinion, at least.

[SoxFan3344]

1 minute ago, oriolefan1035 said:

We have a solid young core and very low payroll. We should be augmenting through FA at this point. Someone like Snell or Gray should have been the target from the onset this offseason in my opinion. I’m not opposed to trading some of the top prospects. Cease just isn’t that guy I’d do it for. Most of our core will be here the next 5+ years. I don’t want to sacrifice several high end guys to get a middle rotation arm for 2 years. I’d want more years of control or a higher end target along the lines of a Gerritt Cole.

If I were the owner of the O’s, Blake Snell is an Oriole right now. I feel your pain, I want Jerry Reinsdorf (owner of the Sox) to spend the money too but instead hamstrung the GM. Luckily for you guys, you have an actual young core and prospects to make moves when needed 

[Malike]

1 minute ago, SoxFan3344 said:

If I were the owner of the O’s, Blake Snell is an Oriole right now. I feel your pain, I want Jerry Reinsdorf (owner of the Sox) to spend the money too but instead hamstrung the GM. Luckily for you guys, you have an actual young core and prospects to make moves when needed 

Still, no excuse for an MLB owner to insist that if they up the payroll from 60M to 90M the team is going to go broke. There is no reason this team can't easily sustain a 130M dollar payroll other than the owner being greedy as hell.

I'm pretty sure they aren't locking up any of the young guys, there is a lot of talent on this team that will get expensive in arb years but they'll likely trade them at that point anyway. Both teams have terrible owners.

[forphase1]

39 minutes ago, SoxFan3344 said:

I’m sure he’s asking for as much as possible, as he or any GM should. I know I’m on an Orioles forum and most of you guys will side with Elias but from Getz standpoint, this being his first big time move, and with how much backlash there’s been for the previous regime, he has to ace this trade. If he thinks that only happens with Kjerstad + Westburg + pitcher + lotto ticket then so be it, have some conviction and stick to your guns. Getz knows the Sox should trade Cease, but until Cease requests a trade the Sox hold all the leverage. With that being said for those of you who don’t want Cease, you’ll probably get your wish. 

I want Cease, but only if the price is right.  Unless he reverts back to his 2022 form (which I find very unlikely given the stats and metrics) he's going to slot as our #3 pitcher.  I'm only willing to trade so much talent for a #3.  I'd certainly trade one of Westburg/Cowser/Kjerstad/Ortiz as a headliner, but not 2 of them.  Pick one of those 3 along with a few of our 10-20 or so ranked prospects and get it done.  Otherwise they can keep him until the deadline.  

[SoxFan3344]

6 minutes ago, forphase1 said:

I want Cease, but only if the price is right.  Unless he reverts back to his 2022 form (which I find very unlikely given the stats and metrics) he's going to slot as our #3 pitcher.  I'm only willing to trade so much talent for a #3.  I'd certainly trade one of Westburg/Cowser/Kjerstad/Ortiz as a headliner, but not 2 of them.  Pick one of those 3 along with a few of our 10-20 or so ranked prospects and get it done.  Otherwise they can keep him until the deadline.  

What if I told you Dylan Cease is gonna be a Cy Young contender next season, would you trade Kjerstad, Westburg, pitcher, and a lotto ticket or is that still too much?