Cease vs everyone else

[forphase1]

4 minutes ago, SoxFan3344 said:

What if I told you Dylan Cease is gonna be a Cy Young contender next season, would you trade Kjerstad, Westburg, pitcher, and a lotto ticket or is that still too much? 

IF you could guarantee that, then we'd be trading for a #1, and what I'm willing to pay would increase significantly.  I'd certainly trade 2 of Kjerstad, Westburg, Ortiz and Cowser + some other lesser pieces for a #1.  Though I'd try to only trade one of the infielders and one of the outfielders if I could swing it.  So yes, I'd do Kjerstad, Westburg, a pitcher and a lotto ticket for 2 years of a Cy Young contender pitcher.  The problem is, of course, you can't guarantee that.  Yes, if we got the 2022 Cy Young contending Cease, that would be great, and I'd pay much more.  But the 2023 results, his recent metrics, etc. make me view him more as a #3, and that lessens what I'm willing to part with for him.  I know we have the depth and can afford to overspend from a depth/talent standpoint, but just because we CAN doesn't mean we SHOULD.  

While reports are a bit conflicting, it seems that the White Sox are valuing him as a #1, while the possible trading teams are viewing him more as a #3 or so.  Which is why he's still a White Sox, and may be when the season starts too.  Going to be interesting to see which sides, if any, blink first.  

[Tony-OH]

5 hours ago, Can_of_corn said:

Do the folks here think that Westburg should be on the untouchable list? 

I don't. I like Westburg, but if he's the key guy they want, depending on who else they are asking for, I'd move him for Cease. He's replaceable from within by Holliday/Ortiz or Mayo at 3B.

The only way the Orioles don't want to move Westburg is if they've determined Mayo is not a 3B and Holliday is not a SS. 

[Tony-OH]

3 hours ago, SoxFan3344 said:

I’m sure he’s asking for as much as possible, as he or any GM should. I know I’m on an Orioles forum and most of you guys will side with Elias but from Getz standpoint, this being his first big time move, and with how much backlash there’s been for the previous regime, he has to ace this trade. If he thinks that only happens with Kjerstad + Westburg + pitcher + lotto ticket then so be it, have some conviction and stick to your guns. Getz knows the Sox should trade Cease, but until Cease requests a trade the Sox hold all the leverage. With that being said for those of you who don’t want Cease, you’ll probably get your wish. 

That's a fair assessment. I'm in the camp that if the price is right, I'm happy to add Cease to the rotation, but Westburg is a pretty important guy if Elias doesn't believe in the defensive capabilities of Holliday at SS or Mayo at 3B.

If Holliday needs to play 2B, and personally I don't think we know this yet, that moves Westburg to 3B keeping Gunnar at SS. That still leaves Ortiz needing a place to play and he's best defensive player of them all. 

If the Orioles move Westburg, they also have Urias who can play 2B well and two years ago was the GG at 3B despite falling off last year in all facets of the game. If I'm Elias, Urias is nothing more than an emergency back up plan for this year.

 Now, would I move both Kjerstad and Westburg for Cease? Probably, but not if I have to include Povich/McDermott and another piece. Would ask for that if I'm Getz, sure, but Kjerstad and Westburg alone is pretty good get for two years of Cease coming off a less than stellar season with less than stellar pitch values.

[orioles22]

9 hours ago, Tony-OH said:

I don't. I like Westburg, but if he's the key guy they want, depending on who else they are asking for, I'd move him for Cease. He's replaceable from within by Holliday/Ortiz or Mayo at 3B.

The only way the Orioles don't want to move Westburg is if they've determined Mayo is not a 3B and Holliday is not a SS. 

But Henderson is a third baseman, Ortiz is a shortstop and Holliday is a second baseman, so move him.

[Billy F-Face3]

15 hours ago, Can_of_corn said:

Do the folks here think that Westburg should be on the untouchable list? 

I personally favor him enough I don't want to see him go. Not for Cease, at least. If it were Corbin Burnes or Framber Valdez, I would have to re-evaluate my attachment to Westburg.

[Billy F-Face3]

13 hours ago, ChicagoTerp said:

Look, I'm as big of an Oriole homer as there is, but Cease has swing and miss stuff 

He's swing and miss, as in, we swing by acquiring him and then miss because of the poor production we would get from him... based on the 4/5 seasons of him Major League career. And he wouldn't even help the bullpen out because he's a 5 and dive guy. At least a guy like Gibson let the bullpen recharge at pivotal moments during the season when they had been fatigued.

[Sports Guy]

9 minutes ago, Billy F-Face3 said:

He's swing and miss, as in, we swing by acquiring him and then miss because of the poor production we would get from him... based on the 4/5 seasons of him Major League career. And he wouldn't even help the bullpen out because he's a 5 and dive guy. At least a guy like Gibson let the bullpen recharge at pivotal moments during the season when they had been fatigued.

Saying he has had 4 years of poor production is an ignorant, lazy and factual wrong statement.

[maybenxtyr]

34 minutes ago, Billy F-Face3 said:

I personally favor him enough I don't want to see him go. Not for Cease, at least. If it were Corbin Burnes or Framber Valdez, I would have to re-evaluate my attachment to Westburg.

I've been a huge Westburg supporter, and I really wouldn't want to see him go. It's frustrating seeing everything revolve around one pitcher. I know Elias has talked to every other team, but it seems to always come back to Cease. I'd like to see him move on and try to get the pitching sorted out soon. 

[Roll Tide]

Quote

There’s growing belief the White Sox could hold onto Dylan Cease until the trade deadline. The Orioles have the best prospects but don’t want to part with top infield prospect Jordan Westburg.

https://nypost.com/2024/01/18/sports/astros-emerging-as-possible-josh-hader-fit-in-mlb-free-agency/

[sportsfan8703]

How about a Boras package deal?  We sign Montgomery, and we also get extensions for Gunnar and Holliday. 

I like the Montgomery revenge angle. He’s a world champion. The Yankees tried to keep him off their playoff roster each series because they didn’t think he was championship material. He signs with us and sticks it to the Yankees for 5 years and is the well appreciated vet in Baltimore that he never was in NY. 

[Roll Tide]

34 minutes ago, sportsfan8703 said:

How about a Boras package deal?  We sign Montgomery, and we also get extensions for Gunnar and Holliday. 

I like the Montgomery revenge angle. He’s a world champion. The Yankees tried to keep him off their playoff roster each series because they didn’t think he was championship material. He signs with us and sticks it to the Yankees for 5 years and is the well appreciated vet in Baltimore that he never was in NY. 

John Angelos cries when you ask for his checkbook 

[Malike]

@Chicago White Sox is trolling hard on the Sox forums. It's laughable. He's again pointing to projections and acting like we should be scared. Bautista was a monster last year for us and I bet not a single one of those rocket scientists over there realize he blew 8 saves. We're going to be okay.

They keep insisting we're panicking here, this team is brimming with talent, I understand they have no clue what that looks like in Chicago, but they think we're a last-place team without Cease. I'm embarrassed for them reading some of the stupid comments over there.

They have no idea what young pitchers are going to do, but hey, if ZIPS projections are canon law, then yeah we're in big trouble. Legitimate bunch of clowns over there for the most part. Cease is an Ace....yeah in what world?

We are in an infinitely better position than they are. They keep talking about the AL East. This isn't 2019, we aren't playing each team 19 times with a balanced schedule.

There is more stupidity than I can handle over there, I don't know how you guys keep posting there lol.

[DirtyBird]

Just now, Malike said:

There is more stupidity than I can handle over there, I don't know how you guys keep posting there lol.

So why share it here?

[Malike]

Just now, DirtyBird said:

So why share it here?

I ask myself that same question every time you make a post. 

[RZNJ]

3 minutes ago, Malike said:

@Chicago White Sox is trolling hard on the Sox forums. It's laughable. He's again pointing to projections and acting like we should be scared. Bautista was a monster last year for us and I bet not a single one of those rocket scientists over there realize he blew 8 saves. We're going to be okay.

They keep insisting we're panicking here, this team is brimming with talent, I understand they have no clue what that looks like in Chicago, but they think we're a last-place team without Cease. I'm embarrassed for them reading some of the stupid comments over there.

They have no idea what young pitchers are going to do, but hey, if ZIPS projections are canon law, then yeah we're in big trouble. Legitimate bunch of clowns over there for the most part. Cease is an Ace....yeah in what world?

We are in an infinitely better position than they are. They keep talking about the AL East. This isn't 2019, we aren't playing each team 19 times with a balanced schedule.

There is more stupidity than I can handle over there, I don't know how you guys keep posting there lol.

Are you kidding.  They fit right in over there.  They use Roll Tides posts to make fun of everyone else on here and they hate Sportsguys guts so he’s trying to pacify them by saying how dumb most of us are over here.