Cease vs everyone else

[CaptainRedbeard]

2 hours ago, interloper said:

Yep. We were really the perfect team to trade with for them. So many ML ready guys they can just plug right in. We're doing the same thing this year basically. And you have to wonder which pending FAs we might trade in the next year or two to keep the pipeline rolling. Maybe no one, but it wouldn't shock me. 

I think the Orioles probably will consider running a bit like the Rays/Brewers at some point once they similarly hit their payroll ceiling but right now they’re still on the upswing. They don’t have a need to shed payroll yet and their core and farm system are so strong and under control for so long that they don’t need supplementing in the same way. In fact they have some excess now to be able to trade for a Burnes.

[Safelykept]

23 hours ago, Sports Guy said:

According to one of the supposed insiders, the WS presented the Os with a list of 3 players and they wanted 2 of them. Maybe Mayo was one of those guys but I think the assumption is one of Cowser or Kjerstad and Westburg. 

Thats not a deal I would do over what we did for Burnes but it is a deal I would have done.

If they still want to deal with the Os for Cease, as I said before, I think they have to take Kremer back along with one of those 2 OFers.  

Nah, you probably just slipped there. I understand the asking price for Cease just went down, But one of the 2 OFs plus Kremer for Cease, you do that all day long, but CWS dont. Even if they do you still need a BP piece. ECab and Max Meyer were talked about (if their even in play) Free agents as Well, Would not be surprised if Elias is still  in talks with Milwaukee, And BP piece is probably his focus

[Safelykept]

23 hours ago, Sports Guy said:

According to one of the supposed insiders, the WS presented the Os with a list of 3 players and they wanted 2 of them. Maybe Mayo was one of those guys but I think the assumption is one of Cowser or Kjerstad and Westburg. 

Thats not a deal I would do over what we did for Burnes but it is a deal I would have done.

If they still want to deal with the Os for Cease, as I said before, I think they have to take Kremer back along with one of those 2 OFers.  

Nah, you probably just slipped there. I understand the asking price for Cease just went down, But one of the 2 OFs plus Kremer for Cease, you do that all day long, but CWS dont. Even if they do you still need a BP piece. ECab and Max Meyer were talked about (if their even in play) Free agents as Well, Would not be surprised if Elias is still  in talks with Milwaukee, And BP piece is probably his focus

[Safelykept]

23 hours ago, Sports Guy said:

According to one of the supposed insiders, the WS presented the Os with a list of 3 players and they wanted 2 of them. Maybe Mayo was one of those guys but I think the assumption is one of Cowser or Kjerstad and Westburg. 

Thats not a deal I would do over what we did for Burnes but it is a deal I would have done.

If they still want to deal with the Os for Cease, as I said before, I think they have to take Kremer back along with one of those 2 OFers.  

Nah, you probably just slipped there. I understand the asking price for Cease just went down, But one of the 2 OFs plus Kremer for Cease, you do that all day long, but CWS dont. Even if they do you still need a BP piece. ECab and Max Meyer were talked about (if their even in play) Free agents as Well, Would not be surprised if Elias is still  in talks with Milwaukee, And BP piece is probably his focus

[interloper]

It's interesting that the Santos trade is like a lesser version of the Burnes trade in that it's a position player, a pitcher, and a draft pick. I actually think the Sox did pretty well to get all that for a reliever who isn't a closer.

[dystopia]

17 minutes ago, interloper said:

It's interesting that the Santos trade is like a lesser version of the Burnes trade in that it's a position player, a pitcher, and a draft pick. I actually think the Sox did pretty well to get all that for a reliever who isn't a closer.

Yeah that's a real lopsided trade IMO, but the Mariners seem to like getting fleeced for some reason.

[Bemorewins]

18 hours ago, CaptainRedbeard said:

I think the Orioles probably will consider running a bit like the Rays/Brewers at some point once they similarly hit their payroll ceiling but right now they’re still on the upswing. They don’t have a need to shed payroll yet and their core and farm system are so strong and under control for so long that they don’t need supplementing in the same way. In fact they have some excess now to be able to trade for a Burnes.

I hope that this is NEVER true. Look at the net worth of our new owners and compare that to the Rays or Brewers owners. They are not in the same stratosphere. I hope we can be at least like the STL Cards. They are not the biggest spenders but spend enough to give themselves legit shots at rings. I believe as is proving to be the case in SD if you spend and bring in (in the case)/ retain (in our case) legitimate, face-of-the-franchise superstars and your fans can see that you are committed to winning AND you actually win; you will gain more momentum in your market (amongst your fan base) and attendance and merch sales will rise significantly.

[sportsfan8703]

3 hours ago, interloper said:

It's interesting that the Santos trade is like a lesser version of the Burnes trade in that it's a position player, a pitcher, and a draft pick. I actually think the Sox did pretty well to get all that for a reliever who isn't a closer.

Our equivalent to get Santos would’ve been McDermott, Stowers, and if we could trade the Gunnar ROY pick. Not sure if that pick is tradeable. 

[ThisIsBirdland]

32 minutes ago, sportsfan8703 said:

Our equivalent to get Santos would’ve been McDermott, Stowers, and if we could trade the Gunnar ROY pick. Not sure if that pick is tradeable. 

How do you figure those are the comparable players? Also their draft pick is in Round B, #69.

[sportsfan8703]

42 minutes ago, ThisIsBirdland said:

How do you figure those are the comparable players? Also their draft pick is in Round B, #69.

Nobody is going to be an exact comparison. So McDermott, Stowers, and the Gunnar pick would be the closest thing we have. Maybe a little more value, maybe a little worse. Can’t be exact. I know we can’t trade regular draft picks, but I don’t know about the Gunnar pick.  Of course it’s higher, but it’s the only pick that has a possibility of being traded.

What’s so off here?  Do you think it’s too much, too less?  If Stowers were still prospect eligible he’d be in that top 17-24 range in our org. Deloach is 21 for the CWS according to mlb pipeline. 

[Sports Guy]

Who knows who the other player was. I would assume it’s not Kjerstad or Cowser.  Beavers would be my best guess.

[SoxFan3344]

11 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

Who knows who the other player was. I would assume it’s not Kjerstad or Cowser.  Beavers would be my best guess.

Just circling back here to say Mike Elias did an amazing job with the Burnes trade, assuming they can lock him up after the season too would be a home run. 

[Sports Guy]

20 minutes ago, SoxFan3344 said:

Just circling back here to say Mike Elias did an amazing job with the Burnes trade, assuming they can lock him up after the season too would be a home run. 

They can’t, they won’t and they shouldn’t…and it’s still a home run deal.

[Bemorewins]

39 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

Who knows who the other player was. I would assume it’s not Kjerstad or Cowser.  Beavers would be my best guess.

With all do respect to Cease (who I like), IMO the thing that is being missed here is that Burnes is much better! Cease has had 1 Cy Young season (which was amazing) but that’s is all. Burnes has won a Cy Young and put up 4 excellent seasons where he has been top 8 in Cy Young votes. The two are not equivalent pitchers even if you remove the player control aspect. One is simply much better/more consistent than the other.

[Sports Guy]

Just now, Bemorewins said:

With all do respect to Cease (who I like), IMO the thing that is being missed here is that Burnes is much better! Cease has had 1 Cy Young season (which was amazing) but that’s is all. Burnes has won a Cy Young and put up 4 excellent seasons where he has been top 8 in Cy Young votes. The two are not equivalent pitchers even if you remove the player control aspect. One is simply much better/more consistent than the other.

I don’t think anyone is missing this. Cease is just worth more because of those starts.

I haven’t seen anyone on here say we should have dealt more to get Cease knowing what it took to get Burnes.