Cease vs everyone else

[HuskerFan]

11 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

If you can remove him from trade options and he is 100% going to be here, that’s another way of saying he’s untouchable….unless he is about to undergo surgery.

 

Untouchable for me is someone that won't be traded in the near and distant future (e.g. 2024 season).  That isn't what I said. 

This winter.  And I clarified he'll be with the O's for ST and begin the season with the organization.  That's it.  What happens after that leading up to the '24 trade deadline is beyond me at this point.   

The info shared isn't receptive.  Lesson learned.  Back to your online GM fantasy land.

Edited December 8, 2023 by HuskerFan

[Sports Guy]

8 minutes ago, HuskerFan said:

Untouchable for me is someone that won't be traded in the near and distant future (e.g. 2024 season).  That isn't what I said. 

This winter.  And I clarified he'll be with the O's for ST and begin the season with the organization.  That's it.  What happens after that leading up to the '24 trade deadline is beyond me at this point.   

The info shared isn't receptive.  Lesson learned.  Back to your online GM fantasy land.

You are saying he is untouchable right now.  Stop trying to twist the words around. 
 

And stop complaining about this. If you don’t understand why people would be somewhat skeptical of “well you just have to trust me”, I don’t know what to tell you.

Not even saying you haven’t heard stuff..I assume you are close to the program, family or something.  Just saying that in this day and age of anyone being able to say anything and report it as a fact, it should always be met with skepticism.  If you can’t understand that, I don’t know what to tell you.

[ThisIsBirdland]

1 minute ago, HuskerFan said:

Untouchable for me is someone that won't be traded in the near and distant future (e.g. 2024 season).  That isn't what I said. 

This winter.  And I clarified he'll be with the O's for ST and begin the season with the organization.  That's it.  

What happens after that leading up to the '24 trade deadline is beyond me at this point.   

I personally appreciate rumors and believe that they just need to be taken with the proper context. It's on the reader to either believe them, disregard them, or view them somewhere in between.

With all that said, it's hard to completely make sense of this. It reads to me like you are indicating he's performing very well in his offseason work and that the Orioles are taking note of it, and thus removing him from trade considerations. That would put him in the same untouchable category as Holliday, Basallo, Mayo, Cowser and Kjerstad (maybe Westburg too), which while there isn't a lot of pitching depth in the system, it'd be tough to imagine he'd be untouchable in a trade for Cease or any other long-term starter. I can't foresee the Orioles passing up on a Luzardo or Skuball deal because they'd be so uneasy moving Povich (or anyone besides Holliday/Basallo/Mayo), but that's just my take. Don't let that discourage you from posting what you're hearing though, it's appreciated!

[Number5]

1 minute ago, HuskerFan said:

Untouchable for me is someone that won't be traded in the near and distant future (e.g. 2024 season).  That isn't what I said. 

This winter.  And I clarified he'll be with the O's for ST and begin the season with the organization.  That's it.  

What happens after that leading up to the '24 trade deadline is beyond me at this point.   

We appreciate you're sharing what you've heard.  I know you haven't been here all that long.  Please understand that, in the past, we've had some cases of people pretending to have inside information that turned out to be pure fiction.  That tends to cause some of us to be very skeptical.  Perhaps if you were to lead with "For what it's worth, I heard from a source I can't reveal that I consider to be reliable..." there'd be a bit less skepticism.  I do believe that the Orioles are high on Povich.  Heck, the fact that they traded their closer to get him is a pretty strong indication of that.

[emmett16]

I'd be surprised to see a pitcher moved this off-season unless it is for an impact starter who also has a good bit of service time left.  Elias said himself that our frontline impact pitching will come from within the organization.  Povich is up there with McDermott, Johnson et al as guys they are not going to give up easily.  Untouchable no, but I'd say the chance of a pitching prospect being moved is somewhere in the 1-5% zone.

I think Povich will break in this year and get his feet wet.  Like Hall(5.5BB/9 in AAA 2023 & 5.2BB/9 Minor career down to 3.0BB9 at MLB level), I'd expect his BB9 to drop when he's trying to get MLB guys out vs. working on pitches in minors.  Something was going on AAA last year as his BB/9 was up 2.0 over his career numbers.  

[Can_of_corn]

1 minute ago, emmett16 said:

I'd be surprised to see a pitcher moved this off-season unless it is for an impact starter who also has a good bit of service time left.  Elias said himself that our frontline impact pitching will come from within the organization.  Povich is up there with McDermott, Johnson et al as guys they are not going to give up easily.  Untouchable no, but I'd say the chance of a pitching prospect being moved is somewhere in the 1-5% zone.

I think Povich will break in this year and get his feet wet.  Like Hall(5.5BB/9 in AAA 2023 & 5.2BB/9 Minor career down to 3.0BB9 at MLB level), I'd expect his BB9 to drop when he's trying to get MLB guys out vs. working on pitches in minors.  Something was going on AAA last year as his BB/9 was up 2.0 over his career numbers.  

He's also said, two years running, that he wants to add a guy that slots into the top 3 of the rotation.

How often does a guy that fills that bill get traded without a pitcher coming back in the deal?

[HuskerFan]

9 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

You are saying he is untouchable right now.  Stop trying to twist the words around. 
 

And stop complaining about this. If you don’t understand why people would be somewhat skeptical of “well you just have to trust me”, I don’t know what to tell you.

Not even saying you haven’t heard stuff..I assume you are close to the program, family or something.  Just saying that in this day and age of anyone being able to say anything and report it as a fact, it should always be met with skepticism.  If you can’t understand that, I don’t know what to tell you.

I'm not twisting any words.  He will not be traded this winter.  He will be at the Orioles ST and within the Organization on opening day.  What happens after that I don't know.

If you want to call it untouchable, go right ahead.  I don't care.  As I said, untouchable for me is someone that won't be traded at all from now till the 24 deadline.  

[emmett16]

1 minute ago, Can_of_corn said:

He's also said, two years running, that he wants to add a guy that slots into the top 3 of the rotation.

How often does a guy that fills that bill get traded without a pitcher coming back in the deal?

I believe the quote was "It would be wonderful if we could acquire a pitcher that could slot into the top half of our rotation."

 

But yea, like I said above...."I'd be surprised to see a pitcher moved this off-season unless it is for an impact starter who also has a good bit of service time left"

[Can_of_corn]

2 minutes ago, emmett16 said:

I believe the quote was "It would be wonderful if we could acquire a pitcher that could slot into the top half of our rotation."

 

But yea, like I said above...."I'd be surprised to see a pitcher moved this off-season unless it is for an impact starter who also has a good bit of service time left"

I think that quote fits into what I said just fine.

[Sports Guy]

3 minutes ago, HuskerFan said:

I'm not twisting any words.  He will not be traded this winter.  He will be at the Orioles ST and within the Organization on opening day.  What happens after that I don't know.

If you want to call it untouchable, go right ahead.  I don't care.  As I said, untouchable for me is someone that won't be traded at all from now till the 24 deadline.  

Ok but your definition is not what untouchable actually means. 

There are a lot of players who won’t be traded this offseason. Povich certainly could be one of them. But I highly doubt the Os let Povich stand in the way between them making a deal for an impact player or not.

[Frobby]

28 minutes ago, HuskerFan said:

 

That isn't what I said so don't put words in my mouth.  

What I did say, for the third time:  Sounds like everyone on here can remove Povich from their trade options this winter. 

There is 0% chance he's not with the O's in ST '24.  Enjoy the next couple months, I'll be back mid February.

With due respect to you - and I have no reason to pick a fight here - the odds are obviously strongly against Povich being traded, regardless of what you were or weren’t told by your unnamed source in the Povich camp.   He’s one of our top three pitching prospects, of whom only two have AAA experience (in fact, the other one hasn’t pitched in AA yet).  We’re thin on pitching prospects, and so obviously the Orioles will be very reluctant to trade one who’s close to the majors, even if he’s ranked below some of our top hitting prospects.  So, nobody will be surprised if training camp opens and Povich is still here. 

Saying that, I feel confident that nobody in the Orioles organization has told Povich he definitely won’t be traded this winter.   Teams simply don’t tell players that, because you never know if a deal will come along where the return is so strong that trading the player is warranted.  

So in short, don’t come here in late February and declare victory if Povich is still here.   That won’t really prove anything.

 

[emmett16]

6 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

I think that quote fits into what I said just fine.

Sounds like we are in agreement then.  With regards to Povich, I don't see management moving a guy who is carrying a 12.1 SO/9 over his minor league career.  

[emmett16]

5 minutes ago, Frobby said:

With due respect to you - and I have no reason to pick a fight here - the odds are obviously strongly against Povich being traded, regardless of what you were or weren’t told by your unnamed source in the Povich camp.   He’s one of our top three pitching prospects, of whom only two have AAA experience (in fact, the other one hasn’t pitched in AA yet).  We’re thin on pitching prospects, and so obviously the Orioles will be very reluctant to trade one who’s close to the majors, even if he’s ranked below some of our top hitting prospects.  So, nobody will be surprised if training camp opens and Povich is still here. 

Saying that, I feel confident that nobody in the Orioles organization has told Povich he definitely won’t be traded this winter.   Teams simply don’t tell players that, because you never know if a deal will come along where the return is so strong that trading the player is warranted.  

So in short, don’t come here in late February and declare victory if Povich is still here.   That won’t really prove anything.

 

I agree.

I think we are dealing with a case of 'telephone'.  

O's > Povich > Povich crew > Povich crew friend > OH 

Assuming HuskerFan is telling the truth, and I don't see any reason why he wouldn't, we are getting a jumbled account of what was actually said to him.  

I think all these guys realize this is a business and that they can be traded at any given time, no matter what has been said to them by the GM.  

[HuskerFan]

13 minutes ago, Number5 said:

We appreciate you're sharing what you've heard.  I know you haven't been here all that long.  Please understand that, in the past, we've had some cases of people pretending to have inside information that turned out to be pure fiction.  That tends to cause some of us to be very skeptical.  Perhaps if you were to lead with "For what it's worth, I heard from a source I can't reveal that I consider to be reliable..." there'd be a bit less skepticism.  I do believe that the Orioles are high on Povich.  Heck, the fact that they traded their closer to get him is a pretty strong indication of that.

Thank you for the kind words.  Noted and understood going forward.  For what it's worth, although I introduced myself in one of my very first posts months ago, let me do it again.  

I'm an older gentleman, retired living between NE & FL.  We do have a home in AZ too, although our daughter and her family currently live in it.  Husker fan first and foremost and don't have a favorite MLB team.  I follow all former Huskers at the next level and to a much lesser extent follow other kids from the state.  I follow them, and the Nebraska program itself, very closely.  I will say the Orioles are fun to watch, but my only interest is due to a few former Huskers involved in the organization.  

I'm not overly familiar with participating on these types of public websites as I usually just read blogs for an hour or so in the morning and move on to the rest of my day.   I came across this website and really enjoy the in-season chat that was going on and decided to create a name and occasionally make a comment.  

Okay, enough from me ruining this discussion of trade opinions.  Back to regular programming.  Have a nice day everyone and Happy Holidays.

[HuskerFan]

22 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

Ok but your definition is not what untouchable actually means. 

There are a lot of players who won’t be traded this offseason. Povich certainly could be one of them. But I highly doubt the Os let Povich stand in the way between them making a deal for an impact player or not.

I never said untouchable though.  You did.  I gave you my definition of untouchable for this discussion.  

The Os won't trade Povich this winter for Cease or any other opportunity.  Yes, I said it and stand by it.