2023 Orioles #1 Prospect Jackson Holliday - SS/2B

[now]

36 minutes ago, Aristotelian said:

Does Corey Seager have any plus plus tools aside from hit? Trea Turner? 

As for Corey, there's playoffs moxie (clutch power). Which maybe gets to makeup, which is supposedly 80 for Holliday, so there's hope.

[Sports Guy]

I see Holliday developing into an above average defensive SS who challenges for batting titles and gives us 60-70 extra base hits a year…something in the area of 15-25 Homers and 40-50 doubles and triples.

 

[Aristotelian]

2 hours ago, Can_of_corn said:

Trea Turner averages 42 SB/162.

His 2023 baserunning run value and sprint speed was in the 99th percentile.

 

So we''ll have to settle for Seager 2.0. I can live with that.

[Frobby]

This seems like a good time to remember that only 17% of posters wanted the Orioles to pick Holliday at 1-1.  60% wanted Druw Jones.  My pick was Termarr Johnson.

This is why I don’t think too hard about the draft and assume that Elias & co. will make a better choice than I would.

 

[RZNJ]

11 minutes ago, Frobby said:

This seems like a good time to remember that only 17% of posters wanted the Orioles to pick Holliday at 1-1.  60% wanted Druw Jones.  My pick was Termarr Johnson.

This is why I don’t think too hard about the draft and assume that Elias & co. will make a better choice than I would.

 

The national consensus was clearly Dru Jones was #1.   Termarr, Holliday, and Brooks Lee were available supposedly if you wanted to save a few bucks and spend it later.

Just goes to show you.

[foxfield]

15 minutes ago, RZNJ said:

The national consensus was clearly Dru Jones was #1.   Termarr, Holliday, and Brooks Lee were available supposedly if you wanted to save a few bucks and spend it later.

Just goes to show you.

And at the time there were some who suggested the Orioles took Holliday because the Orioles were too cheap to take the best player. 
 

I mention that because we really don’t know what the Orioles will invest in this offseason. We have lots of reasons to believe the will not spend but we really just don’t know where their lines are at this time. 
 

I am trying to remain open and am excited about what this leadership team does from here. 

[RZNJ]

3 minutes ago, foxfield said:

And at the time there were some who suggested the Orioles took Holliday because the Orioles were too cheap to take the best player. 
 

I mention that because we really don’t know what the Orioles will invest in this offseason. We have lots of reasons to believe the will not spend but we really just don’t know where their lines are at this time. 
 

I am trying to remain open and am excited about what this leadership team does from here. 

As far as the draft goes, they spend all of their pool money so it’s more about strategy and internal valuations than being cheap.   They would have spent the same amount on the entire draft in 2021 whether they had take Lawlar or Cowser and in 2020 whether it was Austin Martin or Kjerstad.  

[foxfield]

10 minutes ago, RZNJ said:

As far as the draft goes, they spend all of their pool money so it’s more about strategy and internal valuations than being cheap.   They would have spent the same amount on the entire draft in 2021 whether they had take Lawlar or Cowser and in 2020 whether it was Austin Martin or Kjerstad.  

Agreed. Just remembering there was less trust in the plan then than there seems to be now. The healthy dose of skepticism about spending on FA or extending current players will persist until it it is proven unworthy. 

[Sports Guy]

20 minutes ago, foxfield said:

And at the time there were some who suggested the Orioles took Holliday because the Orioles were too cheap to take the best player. 
 

I mention that because we really don’t know what the Orioles will invest in this offseason. We have lots of reasons to believe the will not spend but we really just don’t know where their lines are at this time. 
 

I am trying to remain open and am excited about what this leadership team does from here. 

The Os were always going to save money with the first pick…basically every team has.

The “fear” some had was that they would go with a signability pick like Johnson or especially Lee or Berry.

Holliday was never a signability pick although I think there was some thought he would be a lot less than Jones…but I may not be remembering that correctly.

Edited November 19, 2023 by Sports Guy

[Frobby]

29 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

The Os were always going to save money with the first pick…basically every team has.

The “fear” some had was that they would go with a signability pick like Johnson or especially Lee or Berry.

Holliday was never a signability pick although I think there was some thought he would be a lot less than Jones…but I may not be remembering that correctly.

As it went, Jones signed for #2 slot, and only $600 less than Holliday.  So, I have no doubt Jones would have cost more if we’d picked him at #1.   But it’s pretty clear the O’s took Holliday because they preferred him as a player, not for financial ressons.

Anyway, it’s still to be determined who the best player from that draft class will be.  All we can say now is that Holliday has a nice head start and is looking like a great pick as we sit here today looking back on it.  

Johnson by the way had a solid year after an early injury, putting up an .868/.842 in low A/hi A after an early injury delayed his season by a couple of weeks.  His average was lower than expected but OBP and ISO were very good.  I still like him to be a good major leaguer, but Holliday is on another level for now.  Jones missed a good chunk of time and struggled in low A when he was activated.  

[Sports Guy]

1 minute ago, Frobby said:

As it went, Jones signed for #2 slot, and only $600 less than Holliday.  So, I have no doubt Jones would have cost more if we’d picked him at #1.   But it’s pretty clear the O’s took Holliday because they preferred him as a player, not for financial ressons.

Anyway, it’s still to be determined who the best player from that draft class will be.  All we can say now is that Holliday has a nice head start and is looking like a great pick as we sit here today looking back on it.  

Johnson by the way had a solid year after an early injury, putting up an .868/.842 in low A/hi A after an early injury delayed his season by a couple of weeks.  His average was lower than expected but OBP and ISO were very good.  I still like him to be a good major leaguer, but Holliday is on another level for now.  Jones missed a good chunk of time and struggled in low A when he was activated.  

If Jones went #1, there is a 0% chance he turns down the same deal Holliday got.

[Frobby]

6 hours ago, Sports Guy said:

If Jones went #1, there is a 0% chance he turns down the same deal Holliday got.

If he knew he could get slot at #2, I’m pretty sure he could have negotiated more than slot + $600 at no. 1.   But I’m not interested in debating it, since neither of us really knows what discussions occurred. 

[Sports Guy]

8 minutes ago, Frobby said:

If he knew he could get slot at #2, I’m pretty sure he could have negotiated more than slot + $600 at no. 1.   But I’m not interested in debating it, since neither of us really knows what discussions occurred. 

So, you think he would have gone to college vs taking the deal Holliday got, which is one of the largest in draft history?

[Frobby]

38 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

So, you think he would have gone to college vs taking the deal Holliday got, which is one of the largest in draft history?

No, I think he sound have wheedled a bit more money out of the Orioles.  

[Sports Guy]

44 minutes ago, Frobby said:

No, I think he sound have wheedled a bit more money out of the Orioles.  

And if the Os say no..this is what we are paying you?