Closer carousel

[Can_of_corn]

3 minutes ago, HakunaSakata said:

More than half of the MLB teams don't even have a true "lock down" guy. 

Sure.

What passes for their "lock down" guy.

Every person in your bullpen should be able to record three outs before allowing three runs almost all the time.

[RZNJ]

15 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

I've advocated not using the designated closer for three run "gimmie" saves and you don't even see that very often.  You don't need your lockdown guy for that.

Mostly you’re right.  However 7 4 run or greater leads were blown after the 8th and 3 in the 9th so it’s not quite automatic.

https://champsorchumps.us/records/biggest-mlb-comebacks-in-2023

[Can_of_corn]

1 minute ago, RZNJ said:

Mostly you’re right.  However 7 4 run or greater leads were blown after the 8th and 3 in the 9th so it’s not quite automatic.

https://champsorchumps.us/records/biggest-mlb-comebacks-in-2023

Which is why I put gimmie in quotes.

I'm guessing here but I bet at least some of those happened with the designated closer in the game.

Good link tho.

[RZNJ]

2 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

Which is why I put gimmie in quotes.

I'm guessing here but I bet at least some of those happened with the designated closer in the game.

Good link tho.

Not sure but I also witnessed some games where the non closer comes in the 9th with a 3-4 run lead, winds up getting in a pickle and the manager gets nervous and brings the closer in anyway.  If the lead is preserved that wouldn’t show in that link.   
 

I understand the counter point but I believe you have the other team down you step on their neck.

[Can_of_corn]

4 minutes ago, RZNJ said:

Not sure but I also witnessed some games where the non closer comes in the 9th with a 3-4 run lead, winds up getting in a pickle and the manager gets nervous and brings the closer in anyway.  If the lead is preserved that wouldn’t show in that link.   
 

I understand the counter point but I believe you have the other team down you step on their neck.

If you closer needs work you do.

I've also seen games in which they used the closer with a 3 run lead and they were unavailable the next game.  You can't play 162 one game seasons.

I think it's an acceptable risk in most situations.

[Frobby]

1 hour ago, Can_of_corn said:

Sure.

What passes for their "lock down" guy.

Every person in your bullpen should be able to record three outs before allowing three runs almost all the time.

It would be interesting to research how often relievers give up 3+ runs in 1 inning or less.  For now, I’ll just look at the 2023 Orioles:

Bautista 1

Cano 1

Perez 3

Baumann 2

Baker 2

Fujinami 2 (as an Oriole)

Hall 1

Coulombe 0

Akin 3

Webb 1

Bazardo 1

Givens 1

Vespi 1

So, that’s 19 times a reliever gave up 3 runs or more in 1 inning or less.   A few caveats:

1.  These were runs credited to the pitcher   Some may have been allowed after the pitcher left the game.

2.  These don’t include inherited runners who scored.

3.  There could be situations where a pitcher allowed 3+ runs in his first inning of work but stayed in the game and pitched more than an inning in total, or got some outs in a prior inning but allowed 3 runs in the next one and pitched more than an inning total.  My count doesn’t include those.

4.  This count is for all games, not just games where the pitcher entered with a 3-run lead.

5.  This count doesn’t include situations where a pitcher allowed at least three baserunners, got pulled from the game, and another reliever bailed them out before 3 runs had scored that inning.

So bottom line, my mini-research doesn’t tell us too much.  But it does tell us that a reliever giving up 3 runs in an inning or less happens once every 8-9 games or so, at some point in the game.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Can_of_corn]

I agree it doesn't tell us much but thanks for sharing.

[24fps]

Three pages now and I'm not going to read them so see if there's already an answer, but why the hell does anyone care about how Aroldis Chapman feels?

[Frobby]

5 minutes ago, 24fps said:

Three pages now and I'm not going to read them so see if there's already an answer, but why the hell does anyone care about how Aroldis Chapman feels?

Clearly you don’t speak @Just Regular.

[Can_of_corn]

6 minutes ago, 24fps said:

Three pages now and I'm not going to read them so see if there's already an answer, but why the hell does anyone care about how Aroldis Chapman feels?

Maybe he still sees the psychologist MLB mandated?

[24fps]

9 minutes ago, Frobby said:

Clearly you don’t speak @Just Regular.

Trying makes my head hurt.

[Frobby]

1 minute ago, 24fps said:

Trying makes my head hurt.

I will interpret.  “How badly would Aroldis feel” —> “How bad would acquiring Aroldis feel to us?”

[24fps]

1 minute ago, Frobby said:

I will interpret.  “How badly would Aroldis feel” —> “How bad would acquiring Aroldis feel to us?”

For me?  Pretty bad because it would indicate that Mike Elias was really drunk right when we need him the most.

[Can_of_corn]

Just now, 24fps said:

For me?  Pretty bad because it would indicate that Mike Elias was really drunk right when we need him the most.

The 2023 trade deadline?

[OriolesMagic83]

3 hours ago, RZNJ said:

Not sure but I also witnessed some games where the non closer comes in the 9th with a 3-4 run lead, winds up getting in a pickle and the manager gets nervous and brings the closer in anyway.  If the lead is preserved that wouldn’t show in that link.   
 

I understand the counter point but I believe you have the other team down you step on their neck.

It is against MLB unwritten rules to bring in another reliever to "save" the closer.  This is one reason I'm not a big supporter of the "ordained" one closer.