Pre winter meeting reliever notes

[Sports Guy]

27 minutes ago, HakunaSakata said:

You know that "really good" and "really bad" outings count just as much as the other outings right? And how 'bout you dial back the condescension a bit. Comments like "you aren't understanding" and "you are wrong" are ridiculous and unnecessary. 

Well, when you are talking about a season of 67 innings and 1.2 is really bad and the rest of it is good, you tell me what’s more representative of the pitcher…the 65 innings or the 2 innings?  
 

[Can_of_corn]

11 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

Well, when you are talking about a season of 67 innings and 1.2 is really bad and the rest of it is good, you tell me what’s more representative of the pitcher…the 65 innings or the 2 innings?  
 

Can we add the innings from the playoffs? 

Edited December 1, 2023 by Can_of_corn
removed incorrect number.

[Jim'sKid26]

8 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

He has good statcast numbers but other than that, his peripherals are very underwhelming.

If we could get him for a 2 year deal for 6-9M a year, I would take him but 4+ years for a guy with mediocre stats, poor control and poor command isn’t something that is very smart.

Now, maybe he figured something out in 2023, which saw his K rate jump up and maybe going forward he can be something more or maybe putting him with the right organization, he can blossom. He wouldn’t be the first reliever to do that later in their careers.

But there isn’t a lot of evidence that suggests that giving him that type of deal is smart.

So, if Bautista was healthy and a free agent what would you offer him?

[Sports Guy]

7 minutes ago, Jim'sKid26 said:

So, if Bautista was healthy and a free agent what would you offer him?

I’m not sure what the relevance of this is?  But if all he had was one good year, I wouldn’t go crazy for him….but his numbers are way better than Hicks, so again, I’m not sure what the point of this question is.

[interloper]

12 minutes ago, Jim'sKid26 said:

So, if Bautista was healthy and a free agent what would you offer him?

6/$90? Feel like someone would give him that. 

Edited December 1, 2023 by interloper

[Jim'sKid26]

12 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

I’m not sure what the relevance of this is?  But if all he had was one good year, I wouldn’t go crazy for him….but his numbers are way better than Hicks, so again, I’m not sure what the point of this question is.

My point is that the reliever market in recent years has gotten expensive as teams have come to value high velocity relievers. Guys that throw high 90s and even 100 are viewed as much more valuable than they were 2-3 years ago. Hicks has elite stuff. He throws a 100 mph sinker that would be huge at OPACY with the O's infield defense. I think you are missing the impact of the market on the cost of elite relief arms and I think you are under valuing Jordan Hicks. 

This is my opinion, for what it's worth.

[Sports Guy]

Just now, Jim'sKid26 said:

My point is that the reliever market in recent years has gotten expensive as teams have come to value high velocity relievers. Guys that throw high 90s and even 100 are viewed as much more valuable than they were 2-3 years ago. Hicks has elite stuff. He throws a 100 mph sinker that would be huge at OPACY with the O's infield defense. I think you are missing the impact of the market on the cost of elite relief arms and I think you are under valuing Jordan Hicks. 

This is my opinion, for what it's worth.

I don’t care how hard he throws. I care if he can pitch well.

And I know the reliever market is crazy…which is why I don’t think it’s smart to play in it.

[Jim'sKid26]

Just now, Sports Guy said:

I don’t care how hard he throws. I care if he can pitch well.

And I know the reliever market is crazy…which is why I don’t think it’s smart to play in it.

I think he pitched rather well last year and he does throw hard.

So you would rather sign an inferior pitcher because you don't want to pay the going rate for a good one?

[Sports Guy]

Just now, Jim'sKid26 said:

I think he pitched rather well last year and he does throw hard.

So you would rather sign an inferior pitcher because you don't want to pay the going rate for a good one?

Well I don’t think Hicks is that good.

[Just Regular]

Fangraphs now has Postseason leaderboards - as RP, its no surprise Mariano's +WPA is almost as much as the next 3 guys combined, but I wouldn't have guessed Jose Mesa for top 10 all-time.      Chapman, Robertson, Kimbrel--in that order--all on Page 1 of the career counting stat here.

https://www.fangraphs.com/leaders/major-league?pos=all&lg=all&qual=0&type=3&season=2023&month=0&season1=1871&ind=0&team=0&rost=0&players=0&postseason=Y&stats=rel&sortcol=4&sortdir=default&pagenum=1

[RZNJ]

26 minutes ago, Jim'sKid26 said:

My point is that the reliever market in recent years has gotten expensive as teams have come to value high velocity relievers. Guys that throw high 90s and even 100 are viewed as much more valuable than they were 2-3 years ago. Hicks has elite stuff. He throws a 100 mph sinker that would be huge at OPACY with the O's infield defense. I think you are missing the impact of the market on the cost of elite relief arms and I think you are under valuing Jordan Hicks. 

This is my opinion, for what it's worth.

The Cardinals defense wasn’t chopped liver.  Our defense is good but some people act like it’s the best.

[Pat Kelly]

Os preparing a “wow offer” for Hader.  Ghost of Mark Texiera offseason of magical thinking says hi. 

[Can_of_corn]

4 minutes ago, Pat Kelly said:

Os preparing a “wow offer” for Hader.  Ghost of Mark Texiera offseason of magical thinking says hi. 

Hader is a local boy, maybe he'll give a hometown discount? 

[Frobby]

53 minutes ago, Jim'sKid26 said:

I think he pitched rather well last year and he does throw hard.

So you would rather sign an inferior pitcher because you don't want to pay the going rate for a good one?

I think you have to judge where the market has the best values, and what your needs are.  Let’s say you can sign either Hader or Eduardo Rodriguez for 5/$95 mm.  Which one do you choose, if either? 

[interloper]

1 minute ago, Frobby said:

I think you have to judge where the market has the best values, and what your needs are.  Let’s say you can sign either Hader or Eduardo Rodriguez for 5/$95 mm.  Which one do you choose, if either? 

You didn't ask me, but that's never stopped me before. This is an easy call for E-Rod IMO.