Winter Meetings Thread

[Moose Milligan]

Heyman's kind of a doofus but Dan Clark, IIRC, really doesn't have any credibility.

[Sports Guy]

42 minutes ago, Tony-OH said:

I disagree. Unless there's a need at either shortstop or 2B this year, I think he gets the Gunnar treatment (Aug 31st). I expect Mayo has a better chance to make OD lineup than Holliday. Mayo will be there rookie of the year candidate in 2024, Holliday in 2025.

He will have to be hurt or playing poorly, otherwise, zero chance of this happening imo.

[interloper]

50 minutes ago, Tony-OH said:

I disagree. Unless there's a need at either shortstop or 2B this year, I think he gets the Gunnar treatment (Aug 31st). I expect Mayo has a better chance to make OD lineup than Holliday. Mayo will be there rookie of the year candidate in 2024, Holliday in 2025.

I don't see any way that Holliday languishes in AAA until late August. That qualifies as a fairly wild take IMO. I could see a month or two, maybe. But we'll see! 

Edited December 4, 2023 by interloper

[Sports Guy]

Should be an OH rule that if you post a Dan Clark tweet, treating it like a credible source, should be an automatic 1 day ban.  

Note: not saying Trypatimine was doing that, just saying in general 

[Yardball85]

16 minutes ago, Tryptamine said:

No one has any idea what's going on. Two tweets with completely different messages at roughly the same time.

 

 

Dan Clark has no sources.  None.  

[Sports Guy]

3 minutes ago, Yardball85 said:

Dan Clark has no sources.  None.  

He has 54K followers on twitter.

Every one of those followers who isn’t a bot should have to go through a psych evaluation although I do understand that some follow him because of the train wreck theory.

Edited December 4, 2023 by Sports Guy

[Hank Scorpio]

6 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

He has 54K followers on twitter.

Every one of those followers who isn’t a bot should have to go through a psych evaluation although I do understand that some follow him because of the train wreck theory.

It's pretty easy to fool sheep.

[Yardball85]

7 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

He has 54K followers on twitter.

Every one of those followers who isn’t a bot should have to go through a psych evaluation although I do understand that some follow him because of the train wreck theory.

He's really awful, and quite insufferable whenever anyone calls him out for not having actual sources.  Also was caught plagiarizing Roch and a few other Baltimore journalists from time to time.

[Orioles0615]

1 hour ago, ThisIsBirdland said:

I mean the Brewers just signed Wade Miley and Joe Ross. Not sure what else you could be looking for.

Hey If the O's did that there would be 10 threads and at least 5 articles on MASN breaking down the moves and brown nosing the front office

[Sports Guy]

5 minutes ago, Yardball85 said:

He's really awful, and quite insufferable whenever anyone calls him out for not having actual sources.  Also was caught plagiarizing Roch and a few other Baltimore journalists from time to time.

Yea, I think that’s why some journalists follow him…just to make sure he’s not doing that to them.

[Tryptamine]

27 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

Should be an OH rule that if you post a Dan Clark tweet, treating it like a credible source, should be an automatic 1 day ban.  

Note: not saying Trypatimine was doing that, just saying in general 

That was kind of my point. 1000 people out there claiming to be in the know, when none of them actually know much of anything, the better known guys included.

[Tony-OH]

17 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

He will have to be hurt or playing poorly, otherwise, zero chance of this happening imo.

 

15 minutes ago, interloper said:

I don't see any way that Holliday languishes in AAA until late August. That qualifies as a fairly wild take IMO. I could see a month or two, maybe. But we'll see! 

We shall see. There are a lot of factors that will determine when Holliday makes the majors:

1) Team need at 2B or SS
2) Holliday's AAA performance both offensively and defensively
3) Long-term Economic factors
4) Orioles team performance

Gunnar Henderson, who was the equivalent type of prospects, but was more physical, stronger and probably faster than Holliday at the same age, didn't make his major league debut until he was 21-years old after 295 AAA PAs. Holliday has 91 PAs in AAA. 

If Westburg and/or Ortiz are still here come spring, one of them is going to be the everyday 2B. I personally think Mayo is going to be the opening day 3B with Gunnar at SS. 

If Westburg/Ortiz is playing well at 2B, the team is doing well, why would they start Holliday's clock at the major league level? Plus, if they give him the Gunnar treatment and bring him up on Aug 31st, he's playoff eligible and they can keep his PAs under the amount to keep him a a rookie in 2025.

Now, could Holliday force his way to the big leagues by dominating and then Westburg/Ortiz/Mayo struggle and they decide to bring him up sooner, sure, that's a possibility.

But the best plan when you take both short term and long term implications is for Holliday to spend most of 2024 in the minors IF Westburg/Ortiz are playing well and there's no need on the major league team. 

There still could be trades so that could change things, but I definitely think saying it's "zero chance" this happens is hyperbole at it's finest.

I realize fans want to see Holliday and rightfully so, he's going to be a fun player to watch, but this is an organization that signed Adam Frazier last year despite having both Westburg and Ortiz ready to take over 2B and Urias as a backup plan. 

If Mayo wins 3B this spring and Westburg and/or Ortiz is still in the organization, Holliday is going spend a lot more time in AAA then you guys think. This organization has five players in AAA that are fully major league ready (Ortiz/Mayo/Kjerstad/Norby/Cowser). Holliday is nearly ready but it's too early for me to say he's absolutely ready after just one minor league season.

Could he be, sure, because his hit tool is special. But he still needs to grow into his man strength and his defense needs to be more consistent at both SS and 2B. 

 

[interloper]

47 minutes ago, Tony-OH said:

If Mayo wins 3B this spring and Westburg and/or Ortiz is still in the organization, Holliday is going spend a lot more time in AAA then you guys think. This organization has five players in AAA that are fully major league ready (Ortiz/Mayo/Kjerstad/Norby/Cowser). Holliday is nearly ready but it's too early for me to say he's absolutely ready after just one minor league season.
 

Good overall points in your post. Just wanted to highlight this section because it goes to show how subjective it is how someone views these infield prospects and how/when they debut. Because to me, Mayo wasn't even vaguely entering into my head as a possibility of breaking camp with the team. I think he 100% debuts this year, but I envision him at Norfolk until someone is injured, be it Mountcastle or Henderson or whomever. And I definitely think it's possible I'm way off on that. 

I think also a lot depends on what happens with the quartet of Westburg/Ortiz/Urias/Mateo. For Holliday or Mayo to break camp, one or two them have to be gone. 

Edited December 4, 2023 by interloper

[OriolesMagic83]

11 minutes ago, interloper said:

Good overall points in your post. Just wanted to highlight this section because it goes to show how subjective it is how someone views these infield prospects and how/when they debut. Because to me, Mayo wasn't even vaguely entering into my head as a possibility of breaking camp with the team. I think he 100% debuts this year, but I envision him at Norfolk until someone is injured, be it Mountcastle or Henderson or whomever. And I definitely think it's possible I'm way off on that. 

I think also a lot depends on what happens with the quartet of Westburg/Ortiz/Urias/Mateo. For Holliday or Mayo to break camp, one or two them have to be gone. 

I think Mayo is much closer to ready than Holliday.  Mayo put up an 1,100 OPS in September.  Holliday was just getting acclimated to AAA pitching when the season ended.  I think he barely got his OPS to .800, or just barely missed it. 

[oriole]

If Holliday wasn’t so young with so few AAA ABs, I might think he’d be a solid guess for our opening day 2B. But right now there are a multitude of players that he would be leaping over that deserve a chance to show what they can do. None of them have the ceiling that Holliday does, but until Holliday is really bashing the door down (not there yet, but close) then I want to see what Westburg, Mayo, and Ortiz can bring to the infield. 
 

Im afraid we’ll see far too much of Urias and Mateo. Both of them should have been released, it’s not like they have any trade value.