Craig Kimbrel - Signing

[HakunaSakata]

2 minutes ago, ChosenOne21 said:

I have no idea. A lot of people on this board don't like Yennier Cano either

Have you looked at Cano's second half stats? There's a reason folks are skeptical. 

[HakunaSakata]

2 minutes ago, Going Underground said:

I wonder if he strikes the same pose when he's on the can?

[ChicagoTerp]

People don't like the move for the same reason Phillies and Dodgers fans have been happy to get rid of him the last two years. I hope I'm wrong.

[OsFanSinceThe80s]

 

 

[StottyByNature]

15 minutes ago, Tony-OH said:

For the life of me I don't understand why people don't like this signing.

He's got a plus fastball and curveball. He can miss bats (12.3 K/9). He's got a ton of playoff experience,

Neither lefties or righties hit him very well:
RHB: .179/.253/.359/.612
LHB: .184/.302/.306/.608

Last year he allowed too many homers (11) but only 7 would have been out of Camden Yards. 

I think people are being influenced by two bad outings in the NLCS.

Personally I think he will be great addition to the bullpen, even at 36-years old. 

I will even get used to his stupid vulture pre-pitch stance!

 

It is definitely a smart, rational move.  I would be hesitant to give any reliever multiple years given how volatile the position is.  Kimbrel gives you a pretty good sense of what you're getting and I can't imagine it's for any more than a year with maybe an option.  Keeps payroll flexibility while filling an obvious need.

[RZNJ]

24 minutes ago, interloper said:

Not sure about your Wells comment unless we sign another reliever.

Bradish
Means
Grayson
SP Acquisition
Kremer

Bullpen: Kimbrel, Cano, Hall, Coloumbe, Perez, Tate, Wells

8 man bullpen. Webb and Baumann for the final spot.  Baker and Akin at Norfolk.

[interloper]

4 minutes ago, RZNJ said:

8 man bullpen. Webb and Baumann for the final spot.  Baker and Akin at Norfolk.

So do you just think we're not getting a starting pitcher or what? Either Kremer or Wells are being bounced from the rotation, and Wells is the guy with bullpen experience, while Kremer is the guy Elias and Hyde have pointed out has established himself as a ML SP. To me, that says Wells is pretty much guaranteed to be in the bullpen unless Kremer is traded or something. 

Edited December 6, 2023 by interloper

[Sports Guy]

23 minutes ago, Tony-OH said:

For the life of me I don't understand why people don't like this signing.

He's got a plus fastball and curveball. He can miss bats (12.3 K/9). He's got a ton of playoff experience,

Neither lefties or righties hit him very well:
RHB: .179/.253/.359/.612
LHB: .184/.302/.306/.608

Last year he allowed too many homers (11) but only 7 would have been out of Camden Yards. 

I think people are being influenced by two bad outings in the NLCS.

Personally I think he will be great addition to the bullpen, even at 36-years old. 

I will even get used to his stupid vulture pre-pitch stance!

 

Didn’t you recently say you hope they don’t sign Kimbrel?

[RZNJ]

8 minutes ago, interloper said:

So do you just think we're not getting a starting pitcher or what? Either Kremer or Wells are being bounced from the rotation, and Wells is the guy with bullpen experience, while Kremer is the guy Elias and Hyde have pointed out has established himself as a ML SP. To me, that says Wells is pretty much guaranteed to be in the bullpen unless Kremer is traded or something. 

I think we’re getting a starter and I agree with your 7 bullpen guys.  The bullpen will have 8 so the final spot probably comes down to Webb or Baumann.

[btdart20]

Kimbrel had the most pitch clock violations in 2023 with 13.  

 

His HR/FB% against his CB was 33.3%.  Big spike from a career 10.6%.  Noticeably higher spin rate on the CB too.

Craig Kimbrel Stats and Fantasy Analysis | Pitcher List

CB release point is slightly higher, but pretty close.

When he gets behind, he leans into the FB more (kinda textbook).  

baseballsavant.mlb.com/player-scroll?player_id=518886#rp_FF

 

I wonder how many 0-0, 1-1 or 0-1 HRs he's given up on a hanging CB?

[interloper]

6 minutes ago, RZNJ said:

I think we’re getting a starter and I agree with your 7 bullpen guys.  The bullpen will have 8 so the final spot probably comes down to Webb or Baumann.

Got it - you said "and" in the first post, but if it's "or" I agree. Webb or Baumann are the early picks for that 8th spot. To me, that means there's plenty of room to go out and grab another bullpen upgrade. I like aspects of Webb and Baumann (and we're deciding to pay Webb for the moment), but if we wanted to grab Stephenson or somebody for that spot, I'd love that. Would hedge against Tate also. 

Edited December 6, 2023 by interloper

[sportsfan8703]

8 minutes ago, interloper said:

So do you just think we're not getting a starting pitcher or what? Either Kremer or Wells are being bounced from the rotation, and Wells is the guy with bullpen experience, while Kremer is the guy Elias and Hyde have pointed out has established himself as a ML SP. To me, that says Wells is pretty much guaranteed to be in the bullpen unless Kremer is traded or something. 

If Kimbrel signs the Wells is the starter.  I think we kicked the tires on a Luzardo/Cease trade.  The asking price was too much, so we're going with Wells as a SP with Kimbrel closing.  

The bullpen might need another move because Cano, Baumann, Baker, and Tate, all have some red flags.  But that's relievers. I see this as our OD pen

RH - (5) -  Kimbrel, Cano (has 2024 option), Webb (no options), Baumann (no options), Baker/Tate (Both have a 2024 option)

LH - (3) - Coloumbe (no options), Perez (no options), Irvin (no options)

AAA RP Depth - Baker/Tate (has 2024 option), Zimmerman (has 2024 option), Hall (has 2024 option), Akin (has 2024 option)

We could add a FA like Robertson, but there goes our flexibility.  Factor in options/cost and Robertson doesn't make sense.  The Japanese guy makes sense because he could come with an option.  He'd basically be another Baker/Tate, but is that worth $2-$3 million?  Maybe before Kimbrel.  I could see Elias making a trade or working the waiver wire for another RH reliever with a 2024 option.  Maybe a 1-1 swap with Urias/Mateo.  

 

[Sports Guy]

3 minutes ago, sportsfan8703 said:

If Kimbrel signs the Wells is the starter.  I think we kicked the tires on a Luzardo/Cease trade.  The asking price was too much, so we're going with Wells as a SP with Kimbrel closing.  

The bullpen might need another move because Cano, Baumann, Baker, and Tate, all have some red flags.  But that's relievers. I see this as our OD pen

RH - (5) -  Kimbrel, Cano (has 2024 option), Webb (no options), Baumann (no options), Baker/Tate (Both have a 2024 option)

LH - (3) - Coloumbe (no options), Perez (no options), Irvin (no options)

AAA RP Depth - Baker/Tate (has 2024 option), Zimmerman (has 2024 option), Hall (has 2024 option), Akin (has 2024 option)

We could add a FA like Robertson, but there goes our flexibility.  Factor in options/cost and Robertson doesn't make sense.  The Japanese guy makes sense because he could come with an option.  He'd basically be another Baker/Tate, but is that worth $2-$3 million?  Maybe before Kimbrel.  I could see Elias making a trade or working the waiver wire for another RH reliever with a 2024 option.  Maybe a 1-1 swap with Urias/Mateo.  

 

Kimbrel signing doesn’t mean anything w/r/t Wells outside of him not being the closer.

This line of thinking from you makes no sense. Elias has said all offseason that he wants a closer and a starter. Wells isn’t being factored into the rotation.

Edited December 6, 2023 by Sports Guy

[RZNJ]

3 minutes ago, interloper said:

Got it - you said "and" in the first post, but if it's "or" I agree. Webb or Baumann are the early picks for that 8th spot. To me, that means there's plenty of room to go out and grab another bullpen upgrade. I like aspects of Webb and Baumann (and we're deciding to pay Webb for the moment), but if we wanted to grab Stephenson or somebody for that spot, I'd love that. Would hedge against Tate also. 

I should have used or but I meant Baumann and Webb competing for the last spot.  In my defense I did use the singular form of “spot”.   Two pitchers can’t fill one spot.  

[Frobby]

Just now, sportsfan8703 said:

If Kimbrel signs the Wells is the starter.  I think we kicked the tires on a Luzardo/Cease trade.  The asking price was too much, so we're going with Wells as a SP with Kimbrel closing.  

 

I don’t think so.  Elias said last month he was looking for a bullpen arm with closer experience and a starter who hopefully could slot in our top 3.   I do think he may have felt the reliever was the higher priority of the two, but I think he’ll still be looking for a starter.