Elias talks Stowers

[Billy F-Face3]

Stowers, Norby, and Vavra all deserve a bigger opportunity im the Majors somewhere to have a full career. Ortiz too.

[interloper]

1 minute ago, AlbNYfan said:

I feel it's a "travesty" for any Mil player stuck in an organization and can't get a chance because of its depth. The clock is always ticking for these young men. Lack of service time, arbitration eligibility can cost a young player millions, even though he is not a star. Deal them, give them a chance.

Yeah it sucks. Stowers will get labeled with a "late bloomer" tag if he ever gets his shot, but that's not an accurate descriptor nor was it his fault.

[RZNJ]

26 minutes ago, Aristotelian said:

Is there any limit to how long Stowers can be kept in the organization assuming he is never called up again? Or can Elias just continue stockpiling guys for eternity as long as there is playing time available for them in AAA? 

He has two options.  If they want to, they can keep him at Norfolk for 2024 and 2025.   After that he’ll be exposed to waivers.  Also, if they try to take him off the 40 man between now and then he can be claimed.

Edited December 11, 2023 by RZNJ

[deward]

5 hours ago, sportsfan8703 said:

Some interesting info here...

- I didn't know that Stowers got beaned in the face last year.  On top of the shoulder injury.

- Sounds like other teams were just dismissing Stowers like many here do.  "Lost season"

- Elias isn't dismissing him.  "Quietly had a good year"

- "Stowers played in 68 games with Triple-A Norfolk, injuries robbing him of more at- bats, and had nine doubles, a triple, 17 home runs, 49 RBIs, 40 walks, a .364 on-base percentage and a .511 slugging percentage."

It sounds like teams they we have to just give guys away, but we can have depth.  Nothing is forcing our hand.  It's not some travesty if Cowser, Norby, Ortiz, Kjerstad, and Stowers begin the year in AAA.  I call that achieving the goal of having a farm system that you can dip into for depth as needed.  That's how you consistently compete for the playoffs/division over 162 games.  

It may or may not be a travesty from the perspective of the org, but it's certainly a travesty if deserving players are losing years off their major league career because a GM can't figure out how to give them opportunities. You can't give back what is lost there.

[Aristotelian]

3 hours ago, OriolesMagic83 said:

Trading prospects at peak value is a way Tampa stays competitive year after year.  Would hate Elias to make the mistakes of past O's GMs when they traded guys only after they lost most of their value. 

Doesn't Tampa trade veterans as they start to become more expensive? My impression is that they hoard prospects. Are you considering someone like Myers still a prospect?

 

[Just Regular]

2 hours ago, interloper said:

Yeah it sucks. Stowers will get labeled with a "late bloomer" tag if he ever gets his shot, but that's not an accurate descriptor nor was it his fault.

Some of the ruthlessness is also delaying Arb as well as free agency.    A profile like Stowers I'd guess Elias only has taste to use 0-3 (maybe Arb1) if he has a taste to use him at all.

Santander got his final tender but service time wise he was towards the top of the list of the guys Elias inherited.   TBD if he makes it to Opening Day.    I think Mullins will earn his, but Hays, O'Hearn, Wells and Urias are all guys I won't be surprised if the Sigbot decides to pass a late Arb year or two, especially if the pipeline's high success rate continues.

I've heard some mentions 32-team expansion could be inside 5 years with the OAK-TB stadium situations cleared - I am sure the execs know this timeline in more detail than the rumor mill, but certainly right now a mid-decade expansion draft seems like it could have the potential to be a tough one for us.

[Roll Tide]

Yeah …okay ….Yawn 

[RZNJ]

2 hours ago, interloper said:

Yeah it sucks. Stowers will get labeled with a "late bloomer" tag if he ever gets his shot, but that's not an accurate descriptor nor was it his fault.

It’s a tough profession.  You don’t get a participation trophy.  Stowers has gotten 121 PA and produced subpar offensive numbers and fringy defense.   It would be interesting to see what he could do with 500 AB but ML teams, excluding the A’s, aren’t in the habit of giving guys chances for the heck of it.   Which teams are beating down our door to get their hands on Kyle Stowers?   

[oriole]

I hope Stowers get his shot with the O’s. It seems like an interesting move might be to move some other more highly valued guys and Stowers can step into their place. I’m thinking like trade Cowser or Kjerstad to make ABs for Stowers. Obviously I’m not saying trade those players just for the sake of trading them. But he is good depth and I think if it wasn’t for some other more highly regarded prospects hanging around then we’d all be talking more highly of Stowers. 

[ScGO's]

3 hours ago, Billy F-Face3 said:

Stowers, Norby, and Vavra all deserve a bigger opportunity im the Majors somewhere to have a full career. Ortiz too.

Ortiz, Norby, Stowers, and Vavra wouldn't be a bad package in a trade.

Problem we have, is that we don't have a lot of pitching prospect depth and that's typically what all teams will listen to in a trade. If they have depth at other positions, we won't necessarily match up well with our prospects. We can trade some of our pitchers with our position prospect depth to entice a trade, but I think Elias fears a bare shelf of pitching prospects.

[CaptainRedbeard]

Unfortunately for Stowers, I’m sure the Orioles still value him a good deal as a lefty corner power bat who is a decent bet to post above league average numbers if pressed into action, with two more option years. They certainly should be willing to trade him if a team is willing to give fair value for him, but he’s well worth his 40 man roster spot. Having that kind of depth is valuable. 

I fear Norby is headed for the same fate. The Orioles really need to find a trade partner who is going to value them as potential starters, because that’s what is best for all parties. So long as they stay healthy and productive, it’s a long time before they will get squeezed off the Orioles’ 40 man but they won’t have any reliable path to playing time here until then. 

[btdart20]

18 hours ago, AlbNYfan said:

I feel it's a "travesty" for any Mil player stuck in an organization and can't get a chance because of its depth. The clock is always ticking for these young men. Lack of service time, arbitration eligibility can cost a young player millions, even though he is not a star. Deal them, give them a chance.

The same emotional tug can be said for the HS bench player or travel league guy who just misses or 8U borderline player pushed down to the C team.  The line has to be drawn somewhere and it's always tough for those who just miss the cut.  I have to think that a significant chunk of cases at all levels, the skills differences between the last player on the team and the first one off the team is very small/negligible or even subjective.  But the roster line is distinct.

FWIW I don't think it really impacts a ton of players when we pull the lens back far enough.  Meaning, of the thousands of MiL/MLB players, I don't think more than a few are meaningfully impacted per team.  So maybe 60-75ish tops.  I do think it impacts a deep/top-heavy farm system like the O's, TBR, and LAD more than the average team though.

That is exactly why they have the 40-man rules and Rule 5 draft as well.  But one of the bigger issues is that the MLBPA never really cared about the MiL players beyond those who will make an impact on the game (the Kris Bryants' of the game).  They weren't part of the union. 

Until last year...  MiLB | mlbpa (mlbplayers.com) 

I suspect we'll start to see more MiL negotiation points on the table going forward.  TBD if this particular issue will be a priority for the collective though...

[btdart20]

15 hours ago, ScGO's said:

Problem we have, is that we don't have a lot of pitching prospect depth and that's typically what all teams will listen to in a trade.

SDP is getting flack for not getting a position player back for Soto.  I don't think there is a 'typical' just a team need.  And sure, there's almost always a need for pitching because they break more often.  Just something no strategy can really get around.

[sportsfan8703]

19 hours ago, Billy F-Face3 said:

Stowers, Norby, and Vavra all deserve a bigger opportunity im the Majors somewhere to have a full career. Ortiz too.

I don’t understand this line of thinking. It’s not some travesty. It’s depth. We’ve played by the rules. They were all added to the 40 man and protected from the rule 5 draft the first year they were eligible. Now the O’s have them for three option years. 

We draft and drafted a lot of college bats. It’s not the team’s fault that they successfully drafted and developed. Also, these dudes got some pretty big signing bonuses. 

Norby - 1,700,000

Stowers - 884,200

Ortiz - 450,000

 

 

[emmett16]

19 hours ago, Billy F-Face3 said:

Stowers, Norby, and Vavra all deserve a bigger opportunity im the Majors somewhere to have a full career. Ortiz too.

Vavra?  Agree on the others, but not so sure on Vavra.  He doesn't have a carrying tool and gets hurt every year.  I don't think he has enough pop to max out his OBP skills at the MLB level to be a good bench/utility guy.