What about Mayo?

[Frobby]

1 hour ago, forphase1 said:

I REALLY wants to see both Holliday and Mayo starting OD.  I think they both have earned it.  I'm more than ready to have both Mateo and Urias off of the roster/pure bench players, with Westburg getting the starts when Holliday/Mayo/Gunner need a rest.  But I think both start in AAA unfortunately.  

Urias has a 1.000 OPS this spring.  Just sayin’.

[forphase1]

14 minutes ago, Frobby said:

Urias has a 1.000 OPS this spring.  Just sayin’.

He does.  Of course it's spring training and a very small sample size.  He really took a step backwards last year,  and I trust that more than I do what he's shown in a few weeks in March.

[Moose Milligan]

28 minutes ago, Frobby said:

Urias has a 1.000 OPS this spring.  Just sayin’.

Gaudy spring training stats for veterans that no one cares about and that could be blocking a hyped prospect don’t matter. 

[Moose Milligan]

13 minutes ago, forphase1 said:

He does.  Of course it's spring training and a very small sample size.  He really took a step backwards last year,  and I trust that more than I do what he's shown in a few weeks in March.

@Frobbysee?

[Frobby]

1 hour ago, forphase1 said:

He does.  Of course it's spring training and a very small sample size.  He really took a step backwards last year,  and I trust that more than I do what he's shown in a few weeks in March.

Yeah, he was terrible last year - 1.8 rWAR in 116 games.  Oh wait, that’s not terrible.  Never mind…

[forphase1]

2 minutes ago, Frobby said:

Yeah, he was terrible last year - 1.8 rWAR in 116 games.  Oh wait, that’s not terrible.  Never mind…

Did I say terrible?  Or did I say he really took a step backwards?  Went from having a .720 OPS and winning the GG to a .703 OPS with a much weaker defense.  Yeah, still had a 1.8 WAR in 116 games...but he had a 3.6 WAR in only 118 games the year before.  Thus the 'really took a step backwards' comment.  Never said he was terrible.  But nor was he good enough last year that we shouldn't seriously consider moving on from him with Mayo if Mayo can hold down a serviceable 3rd.  I like Urias as a backup, and honestly I prefer him over Mateo.  But if we need the roster spot in order for Mayo, Holliday or Cowser to make the roster, I'm fine with moving on from him.  I doubt we carry all of Westburg, Henderson, Mayo, Holliday, Urias and Mateo.  

[Three Run Homer]

"When half-gods go, the gods arrive"--Emerson

Urias is a good utility player who belongs in the major leagues, but if he is keeping Westburg on the bench and Mayo in AAA for a good chunk of the 2024 season then something is wrong.   

[Satyr3206]

59 minutes ago, Three Run Homer said:

"When half-gods go, the gods arrive"--Emerson

Urias is a good utility player who belongs in the major leagues, but if he is keeping Westburg on the bench and Mayo in AAA for a good chunk of the 2024 season then something is wrong.   

I wholeheartedly agree.

[Frobby]

5 hours ago, forphase1 said:

Did I say terrible?  Or did I say he really took a step backwards?  Went from having a .720 OPS and winning the GG to a .703 OPS with a much weaker defense.  Yeah, still had a 1.8 WAR in 116 games...but he had a 3.6 WAR in only 118 games the year before.  Thus the 'really took a step backwards' comment.  Never said he was terrible.  But nor was he good enough last year that we shouldn't seriously consider moving on from him with Mayo if Mayo can hold down a serviceable 3rd.  I like Urias as a backup, and honestly I prefer him over Mateo.  But if we need the roster spot in order for Mayo, Holliday or Cowser to make the roster, I'm fine with moving on from him.  I doubt we carry all of Westburg, Henderson, Mayo, Holliday, Urias and Mateo.  

Well, if “moving on” means releasing him, I just don’t see that happening.   If it means trading him, I could see that, if there’s a trade partner willing to give reasonable value in return.  

[btdart20]

2 hours ago, Frobby said:

Well, if “moving on” means releasing him, I just don’t see that happening.   If it means trading him, I could see that, if there’s a trade partner willing to give reasonable value in return.  

What's the breaking point for a trade?  For you (or Elias if you want to play that guessing game)? @forphase1?  

Full value from Urias?  75%?  90%?  50%?

Is there some type of continuity factor/security blanket in the rookie integration plan?  

I think our floor is fairly secure with Urias or Mateo and having Mayo as the priority play at 3B (and Holliday at 2B). 

I would be willing to release Mateo and take 50% on Urias.  #notSigBotapproved

 

 

[forphase1]

3 hours ago, Frobby said:

Well, if “moving on” means releasing him, I just don’t see that happening.   If it means trading him, I could see that, if there’s a trade partner willing to give reasonable value in return.  

Sure,  it's better to get something of value for him if we can.   But if the goal is to improve the MLB team we can't just hang onto guys that no one else wants because we don't get anything back for them.   Be it Mateo, Urias or whomever,  at some point if we have a better player to take their roster spot and make the Os a better team,  we need to make those moves,  even if we can't find a willing trade partner for the guy being replaced.   Now I think we should be able to find a place for Urias as he has some value,  but I'm not going to let that hold me up or force me into keeping him longer than I should if I'm unable to do so. 

Again,  if I had my way I'd start Holliday, Henderson and Mayo with Westburg getting 3-4 starts a week spelling one of those guys.   I'd personally keep Urias over Mateo if we felt we still needed another IF body, but I get some of the arguments the other way.   

But at the end of the day we can't be held hostage by demanding to get value out of everyone we move on from.   Of course that's the best,  ideal situation, but it takes two to tango.  At some point we will need to move on,  even if it means releasing some guys we'd much rather trade.   

[Just Regular]

J.D. Davis has already grabbed an Oakland job that might have been of use to Ramon Urias.

After ATL rescued Adam Duvall, they released Jordan Luplow straightaway.    Luplow may grab a job that might be of use to Ryan McKenna in a couple weeks.

It is ordinary Raysian to enjoy a player's peak when it costs nothing and move on, but it is also ordinary Raysian to cling to every asset no matter how small trying to maximize.     I think it may have been inaccurate with a view of most of the offseason for Elias to have tendered some of these guys, but he probably doesn't want to admit and a ton of patience as in the Mychal Givens trade has helped him in the past.

We can probably handle April as well with Urias-Gunnar-Westburg, a familiar double play combo, as with Westburg-Gunnar-Holliday, but that also involves bypassing Mayo-Gunnar-Westburg.

Edited March 17 by Just Regular

[forphase1]

57 minutes ago, btdart20 said:

What's the breaking point for a trade?  For you (or Elias if you want to play that guessing game)? @forphase1?  

Full value from Urias?  75%?  90%?  50%?

Is there some type of continuity factor/security blanket in the rookie integration plan?  

I think our floor is fairly secure with Urias or Mateo and having Mayo as the priority play at 3B (and Holliday at 2B). 

I would be willing to release Mateo and take 50% on Urias.  #notSigBotapproved

 

 

For me there isn't a hard line on what I have to get for Urias to make the Os better.  If we say we HAVE to get 75%+ of his value before we'd part with him,  then we keep better players in AAA or on the bench while searching for a trading partner that may or may not materialize.  I want the Os to get better, and IF that means we sacrifice Urias in order to do that,  then so be it.  Again,  I'm not saying we HAVE to do that as I'd keep him over Mateo.  But not am I so worried about getting value for Urias that I keep Holliday and Mayo in AAA because I can't milk a sufficient return for Urias.  Sure,  that's the ideal situation, but not one I'm refusing to move off of I'd a trade partner can't be found. 

As to the rookie integration plan,  I think it's a bit overblown.  Some rookies struggle for sure.   But not all do.   I wouldn't want to start 4 at the same time maybe,  but a couple?  And how long does this 'integration ' last?  Does each guy need a week?  A month?  Half a season?  I dunno.  I have no problem with having all of Mayo, Holliday, and Cowser on the team to start the year,  and I wouldn't complain if Kjerstad is here too, if it makes sense to do so playing time wise.  I don't see that for Kjerstad as I don't think the 3 OF starters sit enough for him to get sufficient playing time. 

[Sports Guy]

Urias is not the one blocking Mayo.

They are not going to essentially bench Westburg…and they shouldn’t.

The players blocking Mayo are Santander, Mountcastle and OHearn. 
 

[DirtyBird]

6 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

Urias is not the one blocking Mayo.

They are not going to essentially bench Westburg…and they shouldn’t.

The players blocking Mayo are Santander, Mountcastle and OHearn. 
 

Mayo isn’t going to develop his 3B defense by playing 1B in the majors.