What's your preferred rotation if we don't land another starter?

[Guest]

46 minutes ago, Big Mac said:

If Bradish doesn't take that liner off the foot his first start in Texas, he very well may have won the Cy Young.  He may ultimately settle into being more of a #2-3 guy, but at this moment in my eyes he is a clear #1 starter. 

Bradish getting 3 more starts doesn’t make up the 2.5 war he trailed Cole by. This was also not a very competitive pitching year

[Guest]

4 hours ago, wildcard said:

Bradish, GRod, Means, Kremer, Wells in the 1st half.

If Means needs a month off McDermott is called up.  Its  Irvin or McDermott in the rotation.

2nd half Wells arm fatigue.   O's go to a six man rotation.   GRod, Bradish, Means, Kremer, Irvin, McDermott.

Wells comes back for the playoffs.   GRod, Bradish, Means and Wells.

This plan relies on 2 unknowns even if everyone is healthy (beyond the known issues with Means and Wells)  

1 hour ago, wildcard said:

GRod is there.  He was there in the 2nd half last year.   Bradish had a 2.83 ERA in 30 starts last year.  That is a #1.  Doubt them at you own risk.   You completely forgot Means.

I didn’t forget Means, but I don’t know what to expect from a guy who’s started 6 games in two years, and wasn’t the ace some people think he is after spider tack rules were enforced.

[woodberry]

3 hours ago, oriole said:

This rotation has a big spectrum of how good they can be. It can be really good or it could be really bad. Not to mention there is a huge amount of prospects that could be traded and they’ve got an unreasonably low payroll. Absolutely no reason not to add.

Regardless of how you assess the quality of the in-house starters (I tend to be optimistic, but pragmatic), I keep coming back to this quote. I think it's spot on. Hoping for a repeat (or even growth) from all of the in house guys is not realistic, and quality depth (deep depth) is not there. We want to build on last season, not expect continued growth or linear progression. We all know this. It only takes one pitch to drastically alter the trajectory of a player's or a team's season. I'm sure Felix can speak to this.

Edited January 12 by woodberry
Forgot to add a line.

[Billy F-Face3]

I probably would have put Means in the top 2, but if the 3rd starter has to pitch less innings, then I would put him there hoping to preserve his surgically repaired arm over the season.

1.Bradish

2-3 Means-Rodriguez

4. Kremer

5. Hall/Irvin/Wells (I prefer to see Hall get his legit starting rotation opportunity)

If the team chooses to go with Wells at #5, then they had be prepared to give that spot to Irvin/Hall/Povich/McDermott/Johnson at some point past the All Star Break because his track record shows he doesn't have the seasonal stamina to make it a full year.

[CaptainRedbeard]

My preference is to give Hall the first crack, with Wells in the pen and then Irvin as the insurance. But any combination the Orioles choose is reasonable. 

Irvin’s presence is what really eliminates the need to acquire a guy just for the sake of having another body. If they bring in somebody they need to have upside to pitch quality innings even if they have injury questions. I think the only two free agent SP that still fit the bill are Ryu and Paxton, but I’m not super excited by either of them. If budget constraint is a big factor I’d probably rather spend that money on a higher quality RP. 

Not to start the year, but I have some optimism that McDermott is going to be an option by midseason. He got 50 IP at AAA last year so he’ll probably satisfy the requisite time at that level by then.  He pitched really well at the end of the season in AAA and his 4.26 BB/9 at AAA is better than it seems given the automated strike zone. If he carries forward those late season improvements and continues on that trajectory, he’s got a ton of potential.

McDermott really reminds me A LOT of Bradish as a prospect and the Orioles obviously did incredibly well in maximizing his profile. Their hitting development machine gets all the accolades for churning out great position player prospects, and rightly so, but McDermott and Povich are the first arms Elias acquired since Bradish to hit AAA with real talent, bat missing ability and MLB level stuff. This year will be a big test with those two if the pitching side of the org can replicate the same magic touch they had for Bradish (and Grayson with his mid year adjustments last year). 

[Orioles0615]

14 hours ago, wildcard said:

Bradish, GRod, Means, Kremer, Wells in the 1st half.

If Means needs a month off McDermott is called up.  Its  Irvin or McDermott in the rotation.

2nd half Wells arm fatigue.   O's go to a six man rotation.   GRod, Bradish, Means, Kremer, Irvin, McDermott.

Wells comes back for the playoffs.   GRod, Bradish, Means and Wells.

Hard time believing they are making the playoffs if this happens

[oriole]

12 hours ago, Frobby said:

Kremer once again getting no respect.  He’s way better than a 5th starter.   Fifth starters don’t throw 162+ innings and they don’t post ERAs in the low 4’s.  Just take a look at reality.   

I’m just not a big believer in Kremer. I’d like to see two starters acquired and Kremers spot replaced. Not really because he’s bad, he’s not. He is league average with a low ceiling. Considering this is the window of contention we’ve all been waiting for since Elias came on board and there is room and the means for improvement, then I see no reason to sit around and bank on hoping for the best from mediocre pitchers.

 

For the record, I don’t think it’s necessary to replace Kremer, that’s just what I think they should do. I do think it’s necessary to add a proven guy though.

 

As for what really constitutes a 5th starter, I’m unaware if there is an actual definition. But I consider a league average guy the #5 on an above average team. Last year Kremer had an ERA+ of exactly 100.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Orioles0615 said:

Hard time believing they are making the playoffs if this happens

Agreed - not even getting into the major question marks of Hall/McDermott/Povich, we have a lot of guys that Hyde likes to pull after 5 solid innings. That’s a lot of relief innings to eat without Bautista and Wells (if you’re slotting him in the rotation)

[Guest]

14 hours ago, Frobby said:

Kremer once again getting no respect.  He’s way better than a 5th starter.   Fifth starters don’t throw 162+ innings and they don’t post ERAs in the low 4’s.  Just take a look at reality.   

I’m a Kremer fan. But he is  inconsistent and not a guarantee.

I really think we need a starter (id prefer 2)

1 Bradish 2 Luzardo/cease/Montgomery if we weren’t playing poor 3 Rodriguez 4 means 5 Kremer or someone at the Paxton/Ryu level so you can stash Kremer in the pen until there’s an injury

then you’ve got a solid 5 with Wells, Kremer and Hall in the pen ready to spot start and a AAA team of McDermott and Povich fighting for the next chance.  

[dystopia]

23 hours ago, DocJJ said:

1. Bradish

2. Rodriguez

3. Means

4. Kremer

5. best of Irvin/Hall/Wells/Povich/McDermott/Johnson/Zimmerman????

 

Yikes...  definitely need another starter.  Just hope we don't have to give up too many prospects.....!

 

 

What exactly is "Yikes" here?

[TommyPickles]

1. Bradish

2. Grayson

3. Means

4. Kremer

5. Hall

 

I think we need a second lefty in the rotation, especially considering the current dimensions of OPACY. Preserve Wells' health by making him a full-time bullpen guy. Use Irvin as your longman and spot starter if Hall can't hack it or Means gets injured early.

 

[Matt Bennett]

2 hours ago, brooooksy said:

I’m a Kremer fan. But he is  inconsistent and not a guarantee.

What makes you say he’s inconsistent? Over the last two years, he had a terrible April 2023 post World Baseball Classic. Besides that, you’re looking at like 260 innings of 3.40 ERA ball. There’s an occasional dud but who doesn’t throw duds? If he didn’t throw the duds he’d be a 2.00 ERA pitcher, which no one is. No one goes out and throws 5.67 and gives up 2 runs every time. Maybe Waltimore is helping him out a bit but I didn’t see noticeable home/away splits. 

 

[Guest]

28 minutes ago, Matt Bennett said:

What makes you say he’s inconsistent? Over the last two years, he had a terrible April 2023 post World Baseball Classic. Besides that, you’re looking at like 260 innings of 3.40 ERA ball. There’s an occasional dud but who doesn’t throw duds? If he didn’t throw the duds he’d be a 2.00 ERA pitcher, which no one is. No one goes out and throws 5.67 and gives up 2 runs every time. Maybe Waltimore is helping him out a bit but I didn’t see noticeable home/away splits. 

 

I don’t know why we’re throwing out the duds but his month to month for 2023 looks like:

april: 6.67

may: 2.45

june: 5.44

july: 3.45

august: 2.37

sept/Oct: 6.33

he seems prone to bad stretches and great stretches, that’s what I mean by inconsistent. 

 

[G54377]

My feeling on Tyler Wells: it's just clear he can't stay healthy for a full season as a starter. Dude is approaching 30 years old and has never made it a full season healthy as a starter. I think he should be the multi inning guy and make spot starts as necessary. 

[wildcard]

6 minutes ago, G54377 said:

My feeling on Tyler Wells: it's just clear he can't stay healthy for a full season as a starter. Dude is approaching 30 years old and has never made it a full season healthy as a starter. I think he should be the multi inning guy and make spot starts as necessary. 

Who do the O's have that is a better 5th starter?