One possible reason Elias has not made a big trade...

[RZNJ]

8 minutes ago, Roll Tide said:

I didn’t say that 

Ok.  You said a deal started by Cowser and Ortiz is a good start.  Maybe but the total package will be more than Cease.    None of the three pitchers you mentioned is apparently available also which means it would most likely take a significant overpay over what’s considered fair to get them.    Let’s stick to the pitchers who actually appear to be available.  Cease, Luzardo, Cabrera.   

[btdart20]

4 hours ago, Tony-OH said:

While I do think Kjerstad is a below average RFer overall, I don't think he's unplayable there. I wish there was a little more arm for RF and he doesn't have the jumps or top end speed to make up for it to play left field in Camden Yards. 

I wish he would have shown a little better at 1B because that would be a nice fit if he could hold his own there, but he looked pretty unplayable there in the minors.

If HK is the 40 HR MOO with above average OBP, then he’s borderline untouchable.  If he’s a 25-30 HR and league average OBP, then he’s a LHH Santander.  Solid, but not untouchable given his average-ish defense in RF.

I think he’s the 40 HR guy (and test positive for hoarderitis).

[Roll Tide]

1 minute ago, RZNJ said:

Ok.  You said a deal started by Cowser and Ortiz is a good start.  Maybe but the total package will be more than Cease.    None of the three pitchers you mentioned is apparently available also which means it would most likely take a significant overpay over what’s considered fair to get them.    Let’s stick to the pitchers who actually appear to be available.  Cease, Luzardo, Cabrera.   

Looking at the Seattle guys Dipoto is involved and doesn’t have the reputation of being an unreasonable negotiator. If fact he’s aggressive in trading.
 

It will be interesting to see what Cease actually gets traded for as we know Getz is being unreasonable. 

Will a 5 player package be enough header by Cowser and Ortiz? Do they have interest in any of our veterans? How do they affect the package? I don’t think we know the answers. I can sit here and say that I honestly don’t know. 
 

I do know the cost is high. And I already said I’d be willing to trade our top prospects beyond Holiday and perhaps Mayo. 

[emmett16]

….because Elias is a great judge of talent, has created a world class development system that is pumping out players other teams covet, and truly believes his guys are better? 

[Roll Tide]

51 minutes ago, emmett16 said:

….because Elias is a great judge of talent, has created a world class development system that is pumping out players other teams covet, and truly believes his guys are better? 

The problem is that the pitching help is behind the hitting. 

[emmett16]

7 minutes ago, Roll Tide said:

The problem is that the pitching help is behind the hitting. 

Sure.  And the goal is to have a good team every year.  They finished 7th in pitching last year.  They aren’t planning their entire dev program around 2024 success.  

[wildcard]

Just because Elias will not include certain players now does not mean those players will not be available in late March.    White Sox, Orioles and Marlins will all have scouts at each other camps.  Orioles will know more about all their players by late March including Holliday and Mayo.  And how their readliness will affect other players on the team.    

Orioles will also have more information above Cease and Luzardo.   O's will also know more about Means, Wells, McDermott and the rest of the O's starters.

Edited January 22 by wildcard

[wildcard]

11 hours ago, Tony-OH said:

No, my opinion has not changed. Wildcard has always believed sources like MLB.com over mine for as long as I can remember. To each is own.

Norby is a well below average defender at 2B who will make some nice plays here and there, but will also make some head scratching errors. Has he improved some in his minor league time, sure, but I still feel he's a below average defender at 2B and would like to see what he can do in LF and even maybe some CF to see if he handle it as a 4th outfielder type.

Fangraphs has 9 outfielders ticketed Norfolk this spring.   Kjerstad, Cowser, Stowers, McKenna, Beavers, Haskin, Rhodes, Cook, Fontana and you are adding Norby to that mix.

Now I don't agree with all these outfielders ending up at Norfolk.  I think Cowser is with the O's and maybe Kjerstad if his defense is good enough to play some RF.  But that puts Hilliard in AAA maybe.

McKenna and Hilliard are on the 40 man major league roster and they are out of options.  So they may or may not make it through waivers.

Beaver may spend a month at AA but he will be at AAA before long.   Rhodes probably goes back to AA.

Norby trying to become a LFer, Cook and Haskin are probably at AAA.  Beavers added in a month.

Elias will see if McKenna and Hilliard pass through waiver before trading Stowers.  Stowers at 26 really should not spend another season in Norfolk.

Fontana is an organization player who could end up a AA or AAA or where ever needed.

There are a lot of moving parts in the Norfolk outfield but I guess it is a priority to get Norby playing time considering his bat and potential to be become a major leaguer if he can find a defensive home.

Edited January 22 by wildcard

[OriolesMagic83]

23 minutes ago, wildcard said:

Fangraphs has 9 outfielders ticketed Norfolk this spring.   Kjerstad, Cowser, Stowers, McKenna, Beavers, Haskin, Rhodes, Cook, Fontana and you are adding Norby to that mix.

Now I don't agree with all these outfielders ending up at Norfolk.  I think Cowser is with the O's and maybe Kjerstad if his defense is good enough to play some RF.  But that puts Hilliard in AAA maybe.

McKenna and Hilliard are on the 40 man major league roster and they are out of options.  So they may or may not make it through waivers.

Beaver may spend a month at AA but he will be at AAA before long.   Rhodes probably goes back to AA.

Norby trying to become a LFer, Cook and Haskin are probably at AAA.  Beavers added in a month.

Elias will see if McKenna and Hilliard pass through waiver before trading Stowers.  Stowers at 26 really should not spend another season in Norfolk.

Fontana is an organization player who could end up a AA or AAA or where ever needed.

There are a lot of moving parts in the Norfolk outfield but I guess it is a priority to get Norby playing time considering his bat and potential to be become a major leaguer if he can find a defensive home.

It almost like a trade is needed.  I'm sure you or someone else will come up with a workable solution with up to 9 OF in Norfolk. 

[Can_of_corn]

8 minutes ago, OriolesMagic83 said:

It almost like a trade is needed.  I'm sure you or someone else will come up with a workable solution with up to 9 OF in Norfolk. 

Send some to Bowie?

[Roll Tide]

7 minutes ago, OriolesMagic83 said:

It almost like a trade is needed.  I'm sure you or someone else will come up with a workable solution with up to 9 OF in Norfolk. 

This is why I can’t understand the foot dragging 

[Ripken]

5 minutes ago, OriolesMagic83 said:

It almost like a trade is needed.  I'm sure you or someone else will come up with a workable solution with up to 9 OF in Norfolk. 

They can start all of them in the field and DH.  We know McKenna can pitch.

[RZNJ]

22 minutes ago, Roll Tide said:

This is why I can’t understand the foot dragging 

What’s the difference if a trade is made today or February 7?   

[RZNJ]

59 minutes ago, wildcard said:

Fangraphs has 9 outfielders ticketed Norfolk this spring.   Kjerstad, Cowser, Stowers, McKenna, Beavers, Haskin, Rhodes, Cook, Fontana and you are adding Norby to that mix.

Now I don't agree with all these outfielders ending up at Norfolk.  I think Cowser is with the O's and maybe Kjerstad if his defense is good enough to play some RF.  But that puts Hilliard in AAA maybe.

McKenna and Hilliard are on the 40 man major league roster and they are out of options.  So they may or may not make it through waivers.

Beaver may spend a month at AA but he will be at AAA before long.   Rhodes probably goes back to AA.

Norby trying to become a LFer, Cook and Haskin are probably at AAA.  Beavers added in a month.

Elias will see if McKenna and Hilliard pass through waiver before trading Stowers.  Stowers at 26 really should not spend another season in Norfolk.

Fontana is an organization player who could end up a AA or AAA or where ever needed.

There are a lot of moving parts in the Norfolk outfield but I guess it is a priority to get Norby playing time considering his bat and potential to be become a major leaguer if he can find a defensive home.

Let’s see.  Cowser or Kjerstad plus Norby go in the same trade.  The remaining of Cowser/Kjerstad makes the team.  Beavers and Rhodes go to Bowie.   One of McKenna/Hilliard make the team.  The other is waived and potentially claimed.   That’s subtracting 6 outfielders right there.

Edited January 22 by RZNJ

[24fps]

1 hour ago, wildcard said:

Just because Elias will not include certain players now does not mean those players will not be available in late March.    White Sox, Orioles and Marlins will all have scouts at each other camps.  Orioles will know more about all their players by late March including Holliday and Mayo.  And how their readliness will affect other players on the team.    

Orioles will also have more information above Cease and Luzardo.   O's will also know more about Means, Wells, McDermott and the rest of the O's starters.

Every team will know more about every other team including their own by March.  That includes each team's respective players and which GMs sat on their hands gathering information while the rest actively set out to address their team's problems.  Injuries and ineffectiveness happen whether you choose to recognize that possibility or not.  It would be a shame if Elias was forced to overpay because he let the right moment pass.

If the White Sox really are being unreasonable - remember nobody actually KNOWS anything at the moment - maybe it's time to sign a guy like Paxton to as short a contract as he's willing to agree to Elias can gather information to his heart's content.