755

[YardBirds13]

He'll get less of the vote than Big Mac did, and that is a damn shame. People felt deceived by Raffy, you never want to think of your heroes as cheaters, and that's what bothered so many around here. And of course, the whole pointing fingers at congress thing...and the blaming the teammate thing didn't help either..

That whole fiasco made me ten times more upset than the positive test. It's one thing to do it, but to try and throw a teammate under the bus? That actually really pissed me off, much more than the positive test.

[MCL1021]

Ehhh....I don't really care....Bonds was a hell of a ballplayer before he became a Giant and before all the steroid talk came about.

It's just amazing to see he is now about to knock down the record, totally unbelievable it's at that point. Regardless of what's going on, I hope I personally see him hit 756....

[Tank]

Ehhh....I don't really care....Bonds was a hell of a ballplayer before he became a Giant and before all the steroid talk came about.

It's just amazing to see he is now about to knock down the record, totally unbelievable it's at that point. Regardless of what's going on, I hope I personally see him hit 756....

I agree. I hope I get to see it happen.

[utvolzac]

I'd say take a look at how the perception of Rafael Palmeiro changed on a dime once he was confirmed to be a user.

This sums it up for me. B-Rob is my favorite player, but if it came out that he was juiced in '05 when he had a power splurge, I would want him out of the organization immediately. I really don't buy into the argument that "everybody else was doing it", because it's still cheating. And its still a disgrace to the game, your team and your fans, IMO.

Palmeiro is the perfect example. Prior to his positive test, I was a big Raffy fan. However, I lost all respect for him after we found out he was on roids. I felt he had personally dishonored our team. I was at his first game back and proudly booed him long and loud.

I guess my philosophy is cheating is cheating, no matter if it was the so called "steroid era". Not everyone was using and some guys still played the game without enhancements. Plus, I think its a huge slap in the face to guys like Ripken who played the game the right way. Hank Aaron deserved the home run title, Bonds does not. One cheated, one didn't.

[square634]

The thing about the cheating is, some guys are celebrated (Gaylord Perry) for cheating by throwing spitballs. The other question is, how do we know that Hank Aaron never used something like a corked bat. I guess that is a different category of cheating.

Also, I don't want to get flamed for this, but how do we know, for sure, that Ripken "played the game the right way" and didn't use steroids? I mean, I don't think he did, but that's what I thought about Palmeiro, too.

Obviously there is a lot more evidence against Bonds, and I really don't like him, but I'm just playing devil's advocate.

[The Wedge]

I agree. I hope I get to see it happen.

I hope to see it happen, too, because even as much as I don't think it's clean nor do I particularly care for the man, it's history. I also hope to see it get broken again 7-8 years from now.

[Tank]

I hope to see it happen, too, because even as much as I don't think it's clean nor do I particularly care for the man, it's history. I also hope to see it get broken again 7-8 years from now.

Exactly.

"Excellent post, I agree!"

[JGuthrie46]

yeah.. wow what a day.. 500th for Arod and 755th for Bonds. I'm hoping Arod or Pujols can catch Bonds up and set a clean record. But for now, I'm happy for him. I was lucky I was watching the whole thing yesterday man.. and Hensley was pitchuing good too.

[YardBirds13]

This sums it up for me. B-Rob is my favorite player, but if it came out that he was juiced in '05 when he had a power splurge, I would want him out of the organization immediately. I really don't buy into the argument that "everybody else was doing it", because it's still cheating. And its still a disgrace to the game, your team and your fans, IMO.

Palmeiro is the perfect example. Prior to his positive test, I was a big Raffy fan. However, I lost all respect for him after we found out he was on roids. I felt he had personally dishonored our team. I was at his first game back and proudly booed him long and loud.

I guess my philosophy is cheating is cheating, no matter if it was the so called "steroid era". Not everyone was using and some guys still played the game without enhancements. Plus, I think its a huge slap in the face to guys like Ripken who played the game the right way. Hank Aaron deserved the home run title, Bonds does not. One cheated, one didn't.

It was a part of the game. Like it or not, it was a huge part of the game. Do you really think the greatest hitter of the entire era was one of only 3 or 4 guys on steroids?? You can't just wipe out an entire era of baseball becasue of something that most people say was widely used and widely accepted in baseball.

It happened. Now we are into a new era, but Bonds still has 755 homers, and nobody can take that away from him.

[geschinger]

It was a part of the game. Like it or not, it was a huge part of the game. Do you really think the greatest hitter of the entire era was one of only 3 or 4 guys on steroids?? You can't just wipe out an entire era of baseball becasue of something that most people say was widely used and widely accepted in baseball.

There is no reason to wipe out an entire era but there is also no reason for people to ignore those players who have been confirmed as being cheaters on the basis that there are others who have cheated. The most common estimates I've heard is that there were somewhere between 20-40% of players who used currently banned PEDs. Since some substances classified on PEDs are legal I'm sure that the number of players using illegal substances is even lower than that. While it's a lot of players - certainly a lot more than 3-4 players - It's not enough to justify tarnishing everyone from that era as having cheated and give a pass to those who have been confirmed as cheaters.

I'm not looking for Bonds to have an asterisk or have his name removed from the record books or anything that drastic. But I do think when the history of Bonds is written it would be irresponsible to ignore the cheating.

[mweb]

I truly believe that much of the Bonds hatred comes form the combination of steroids/being an ass. Let's be honest, there are players that played or are playing in our city that are beloved that are clearly on or were on something, and they're not spoken of in a negative way.

If McGwire (pre congress), or Sosa, guys who were known as being "fun loving" were going after this even with the suspicion of steroid use, I don't think there would be as much backlash. Bonds has always been a jerk, and that tainted people long before his steroid years.

Totally agree. If Bonds was a nice and fun loving guy, how fans view him would be a lot different. His personality is at least as big of a factor as the steroids are imo.

[utvolzac]

It was a part of the game. Like it or not, it was a huge part of the game. Do you really think the greatest hitter of the entire era was one of only 3 or 4 guys on steroids?? You can't just wipe out an entire era of baseball becasue of something that most people say was widely used and widely accepted in baseball.

It happened. Now we are into a new era, but Bonds still has 755 homers, and nobody can take that away from him.

It may have been part of the game during that era, but why should we punish players like Hank Aaron, who weren't part of the steriod era, by rewarding cheaters with hard earned records by people who didn't cheat.

Given the amount of evidence to support the blantant cheating during the steroid era, I wouldn't mind erasing those records completely. Or at the very least putting an * by them, even though I'm not a big * guy.

To me, 755 & 61 have not been broken. Especially 61. You cannot tell me that a record like that could stand for almost a half decade till Maris broke it, then stood for almost another half decade just to have 3 guys, not only break it, but shatter it. Not without significant enhancement going on.

[mweb]

BTW, I don't think it's that bad to "cheat" when it's only a response to lets say half of the league also "cheating", it's just a way of keeping up. Now I have more respect for the guys that didn't use steroids, and were able to play at a high level. However, as a fan, or as an owner/GM/caoch, if I knew about half of the players were using steroids to improve their game without repercussion, I'd actually support players on my team doing the same in order to win more games.

With that said, I would have prefered for steroids to have never been used in baseball. But since they were available and since it wasn't being tested for, and in some ways actually encouraged imo, it's something I can't blame guys for doing. Athletes have always tried to find a way to get that edge, and that includes guys like Aaron and Mays(greenies), that's just the way it is, and always will be.

[Mark Carver]

Totally agree. If Bonds was a nice and fun loving guy, how fans view him would be a lot different. His personality is at least as big of a factor as the steroids are imo.

And MLB players themselves too...? After all, he's not part of the MLBPA licensing agreement as he has opted out. He was the first player ever to do so in the 30-year history of the licensing program.

[mweb]

And MLB players themselves too...? After all, he's not part of the MLBPA licensing agreement as he has opted out. He was the first player ever to do so in the 30-year history of the licensing program.

I'm not sure what you're asking me or what this has to do with the conversation.