TT: Taking a look at the bullpen now that Hall is gone

[OriolesMagic83]

18 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

Well a few things here…

1) I agree they need to trade vets…but trade the ones that actually bring back value and a player(s) we need right now.

2) If he is hovering around a 700 OPS, you DFA him.

3) A world exists where you have the following position players on the team..Adley, McCann, Mounty, OHearn, Westburg, Gunnar, Mateo, Urias, Mullins, Cowser, Kjerstad, Santander and Hays on the OD roster.  Now, it’s possibly Kjerstad and Cowser struggle to get enough at bats at times but that will be driven by performance.

I think these guys are your everyday players:  Adley, Westburg, Gunnar, Mullins and probably Santander and Hays.

I think Mounty and OHearn rotate depending on matchups at first.

That leaves Mateo at SS vs lefties and Urias at second or third against righties.

And one position open for Cowser or Kjerstad every day. It also means occasional days off for some of the other vet guys to find more at bats for them.

One of my hopes for this season is less DH time for Adley. 

Where do Mayo and Holliday play?  Mayo is probably ready now and Holliday will either be ready by opening day or within a couple of months.

[Sports Guy]

8 minutes ago, OriolesMagic83 said:

Where do Mayo and Holliday play?  Mayo is probably ready now and Holliday will either be ready by opening day or within a couple of months.

They aren’t on the team to start…that gets sorted out through bad play, trades or injuries.

When those guys come up, they will have a spot. 

Trading OHearn isn’t really going to change that.

Edited February 5 by Sports Guy

[CaptainRedbeard]

1 hour ago, Sports Guy said:

Baumann is one of those guys who has the stuff  where he could have a big year at any point.

Im certainly not ruling him out for the pen…I think we have too many guys who just aren’t that good out there or, at the very least, have been incredibly inconsistent and aren’t guys we should be surprised fall off a cliff.

And Baumann is the same..I wouldn’t be surprised if he is DFA’d at some point but I also wouldn’t be surprised if he had a 2.7 ERA, 70 inning season this year. That’s the nature of most relievers and he has the stuff to be very good.

Yeah, we have 4 solid RPs where we have a good idea what we’re getting - Kimbrel, Cano, Coulombe, Perez - plus Irvin.  They of course have the typical RP volatility, but they’re locked in health permitting. 

Then it’s 3 spots for righties, one of which will ultimately need to be an optionable arm, with a group that has a wide range of outcomes - Wells, Tate, Webb, Baker, Baumann. I’d rank them in that order of my confidence right now (if Tate is actually healthy), but by the end of 2024 I wouldn’t be really surprised at whatever order they end up. 

The question now is how does Elias feel about that group and is he willing to DFA the out of options Webb/Baumann for someone outside the organization? Or even to get both Wells and Tate in the MLB bullpen?

[Sports Guy]

12 minutes ago, CaptainRedbeard said:

Yeah, we have 4 solid RPs where we have a good idea what we’re getting - Kimbrel, Cano, Coulombe, Perez - plus Irvin.  They of course have the typical RP volatility, but they’re locked in health permitting. 

Then it’s 3 spots for righties, one of which will ultimately need to be an optionable arm, with a group that has a wide range of outcomes - Wells, Tate, Webb, Baker, Baumann. I’d rank them in that order of my confidence right now (if Tate is actually healthy), but by the end of 2024 I wouldn’t be really surprised at whatever order they end up. 

The question now is how does Elias feel about that group and is he willing to DFA the out of options Webb/Baumann for someone outside the organization? Or even to get both Wells and Tate in the MLB bullpen?

You really think you know what you are getting from those 4 pitchers?  I have confidence that Kimbrel will be good enough and there are reasons to believe in those other 3 but all of them being mediocre at best in 2024 wouldn’t be shocking.

[Sports Guy]

Just occurred to me that Adames to the Marlins is likely. They likely get pitching back, so that may end any of our chances to get a pitcher back from the Marlins.

[CaptainRedbeard]

31 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

You really think you know what you are getting from those 4 pitchers?  I have confidence that Kimbrel will be good enough and there are reasons to believe in those other 3 but all of them being mediocre at best in 2024 wouldn’t be shocking.

I’m pretty confident that Coulombe and Cano will be solid members of the pen, but not that they’ll necessarily repeat last year. But I think they are good relievers, just could benefit from having another RP to go with them.

I especially don’t think either are well suited to be locked in as the “8th inning guy” because Cano should be shielded from LH hitters more than he was last year, and Coulombe can get righties out but is still better deployed against lefties. 

Perez I think is what he is - good ground ball lefty but bad K/BB rates. He could implode if his contact suppression or command falter but there’s a solid niche for that type. 

Kimbrel is a perfectly acceptable closer/setup guy but not a huge asset. 

They could really benefit from a righty who can get out both lefties and righties and pitch in a more conventional set-up / backup closer role. All of Wells, Webb and Baker have 3 pitch mixes with changeups that can fit that mold, and 2021 Wells or 2022 Baker would work perfectly. But I don’t think we can really bank on either of them showing up so I’d like to bring someone additional in, even if it means Baumann may get DFAd. I just am skeptical Elias feels the same. 

[Three Run Homer]

I prefer the game of baseball to the game of options.  I really don't want to see Wells or Tate in Norfolk at the start of next season just because we're worried about losing Jacob Webb or Michael Baumann on a waiver claim.  They aren't worth losing sleep or ball games over.  

[DirtyBird]

Bullpen is doomed without Hall

[Safelykept]

1 hour ago, CaptainRedbeard said:

Yeah, we have 4 solid RPs where we have a good idea what we’re getting - Kimbrel, Cano, Coulombe, Perez - plus Irvin.  They of course have the typical RP volatility, but they’re locked in health permitting. 

Then it’s 3 spots for righties, one of which will ultimately need to be an optionable arm, with a group that has a wide range of outcomes - Wells, Tate, Webb, Baker, Baumann. I’d rank them in that order of my confidence right now (if Tate is actually healthy), but by the end of 2024 I wouldn’t be really surprised at whatever order they end up. 

The question now is how does Elias feel about that group and is he willing to DFA the out of options Webb/Baumann for someone outside the organization? Or even to get both Wells and Tate in the MLB bullpen?

How is Wells not locked in? (Because he has options?) All things being equal its you're 5 plus Wells, Probably   Webb/Baumann with Tate and Baker (with options) to Norfolk. Of course Trades, ST performance< injuries could change this

[interloper]

1 hour ago, DirtyBird said:

Bullpen is doomed without Hall

Sarcasm? Doomed? Really?

[Tony-OH]

7 minutes ago, interloper said:

Sarcasm? Doomed? Really?

It's his schtick. Over the top doom and gloom. Most just ignore him by now.

[btdart20]

12 hours ago, OriolesMagic83 said:

Why not trade O'Hearn?  O'Hearn is likely to have a good bit of regression this year, but trading him would clear up some DH/1B time for Kjerstad.  Would that make Cowser the 4th OF? 

Trade value for Mounty.  But also I suspect HK isn’t part of a 1B platoon.  Mayo might be.  

[sportsfan8703]

Webb has a little bit more experience than I think we realize. The Angels just cut him loose for some reason. Before last season he was an up/down guy for the Braves for parts of 3 seasons, even pitching in a handful of playoff games. 
 

 

[LookinUp]

16 hours ago, sportsfan8703 said:

There is value to keeping McDermott, Povich, and Johnson, starting in AAA for as long as possible this season. It’s a shot at developing a SP out of the three and plus they get more AAA IP to learn how to get batters out.  More chances to develop secondary pitches. 

Also, we play a ton of high leverage innings. Not many opportunities just to flop a rookie SP into the MLB and a new role as a reliever. 

I think they think of him as a starter, but that doesn’t mean he is a starter this year. I really think he could be our electric arm out of the bullpen.

[sportsfan8703]

2 minutes ago, LookinUp said:

I think they think of him as a starter, but that doesn’t mean he is a starter this year. I really think he could be our electric arm out of the bullpen.

I could see McDermott getting a similar opportunity like Hall did last season in the Detroit game in long relief. McDermott is available to pitch, and we need a fresh arm. We play so many close games. Let’s just hope it’s because we’re on the good side of the blowout.