TT: Taking a look at the bullpen now that Hall is gone

[RZNJ]

Mike Elias doesn’t strike me as the type to sign Kimbrel with the idea that he’ll get the bulk of the save opportunities, barring poor performance, and then go make a big move for another closer.

[Three Run Homer]

3 hours ago, orioles22 said:

Not sure very many teams have eight bullpen spots locked in at this point, but ours seems solid with Kimbrel/Coulumbe/Cano/Perez in innings 7-9 with Irvin and Wells the potential long guys with Tate, Baker, Baumann, Akin, Vespi, Zimmerman also in the mix for middle/long roles. How many do we need?

I'd rather move Kremer for another lefty in the rotation.

Wells looked very promising as a setup man in 2021 and he pitched well in high-leverage situations down the stretch in 2023.  I think he is a better pitcher than anyone else currently in the bullpen.  It will be a huge waste if he's relegated to long relief.  

[sportsfan8703]

What would Clase or Devin Williams cost?  A version of the Cease package… Cowser/Kjerstad, Norby, Stowers/Johnson?

Is the Gunnar ROY pick able to be traded?  

[sportsfan8703]

The reason why you consider a trade for a guy like Clase now is that he’s not going to be available at the deadline if traded and we’re not in on it. Plus, we rely on our bullpen so much. A Clase trade would also take some stress off of Bautista in the future. It might be good to get in on Clase now while there doesn’t seem like much of a market versus the unknown of the deadline. 

[Aristotelian]

9 hours ago, Three Run Homer said:

Wells looked very promising as a setup man in 2021 and he pitched well in high-leverage situations down the stretch in 2023.  I think he is a better pitcher than anyone else currently in the bullpen.  It will be a huge waste if he's relegated to long relief.  

I agree. Wells has closing experience and throws strikes. Any of Kimbrel, Cano, and Wells can get outs vs LHB/RHB and finish games. They might not be elite closers but having three closer level guys makes for a solid bullpen. Add Coulombe and Perez for matchups and that should be enough to finish games most weeks. Hopefully Burnes allows us to go with a five man rotation, giving us three spots for some combination of Baumann, Tate, Irvin, Webb, McDermott, and Baker for lower leverage and long relief.

Clase would be nice but there is no way I am giving up a Burnes-level package for him. His ERA jumped and K/9 went way down last year with a lot of innings on that arm. 

[Sports Guy]

Clase really dropped off last year in some ways. I’m not sure I would want to give up a good package of young players for him.  I think I would rather give up less to get players that easily could be as good but don’t have the saves and name recognition that causes their price to be high.

[CaptainRedbeard]

15 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

Clase really dropped off last year in some ways. I’m not sure I would want to give up a good package of young players for him.  I think I would rather give up less to get players that easily could be as good but don’t have the saves and name recognition that causes their price to be high.

Agreed and even if Clase didn’t have those concerns, I don’t think it makes sense for the Orioles to trade any prospects better than Norby for a RP.  And I’d be very reluctant to part with McDermott or Povich now that Burnes was the SP acquisition and he and Means are FA after this year - we are in much better shape if one of the AAA guys pans out as a SP for 2025 and we only fill one other rotation spot through FA/trade.

I don’t think Elias would be in on a bigger name RP, but if we could get a solid setup type for Norby and/or some of the lesser non-SP prospects, I could see that.

But I think they’re content to keep Norby and hope he either improves his trade value for a trade deadline RP with a first half more like his second half last year, or ultimately fits in as a righty 2B/LF bench guy. 

[wildbillhiccup]

9 hours ago, sportsfan8703 said:

The reason why you consider a trade for a guy like Clase now is that he’s not going to be available at the deadline if traded and we’re not in on it. Plus, we rely on our bullpen so much. A Clase trade would also take some stress off of Bautista in the future. It might be good to get in on Clase now while there doesn’t seem like much of a market versus the unknown of the deadline. 

When you trade for a closer you're paying an inflated value for his saves. This team doesn't need to overpay for saves, it just need reliable bullpen arm. There are plenty of comparable RPs to Clase who aren't closers who would more than likely be considerably cheaper to acquire via trade. Clase is also a player who is trending in the wrong direction with his velocity. I wouldn't be surprised if that's part of the reason the Guardians have quitely put him on the market. They probably realize that trading him now before those regressions are reflected in his overall numbers is the smart play. It would also explain why they resigned Scott Barlow who has closing experience. 

[interloper]

12 hours ago, RZNJ said:

Mike Elias doesn’t strike me as the type to sign Kimbrel with the idea that he’ll get the bulk of the save opportunities, barring poor performance, and then go make a big move for another closer.

Agreed. Another closer is probably not in the cards. Someone more under the radar perhaps. He has to grab somebody though - the bullpen could have used help even when we still had Hall. 

There doesn't appear to be any consensus on a target from Hangouters though, which means we're probably in for a curious pickup in the mold of Coulombe. And maybe not until guys get whittled off their team's 40-man later in spring. 

I would have liked Brasier. I know SG was not a fan. Junis just signed to be a SP in Milwaukee. 

I just had a peruse of the remaining free agent relievers and there is basically no one of interest left unless you like 40 year old Jesse Chavez. 
 

[orioles22]

10 hours ago, Three Run Homer said:

Wells looked very promising as a setup man in 2021 and he pitched well in high-leverage situations down the stretch in 2023.  I think he is a better pitcher than anyone else currently in the bullpen.  It will be a huge waste if he's relegated to long relief.  

I see your point and that's probably what will happen. I like the idea of seeing him pitch multiple innings twice a week to perhaps get him back to being a starter eventually. He could close out a game going innings 7-9 since he's been a starter in the past.

[RZNJ]

5 minutes ago, interloper said:

Agreed. Another closer is probably not in the cards. Someone more under the radar perhaps. He has to grab somebody though - the bullpen could have used help even when we still had Hall. 

There doesn't appear to be any consensus on a target from Hangouters though, which means we're probably in for a curious pickup in the mold of Coulombe. And maybe not until guys get whittled off their team's 40-man later in spring. 

I would have liked Brasier. I know SG was not a fan. Junis just signed to be a SP in Milwaukee. 

I just had a peruse of the remaining free agent relievers and there is basically no one of interest left unless you like 40 year old Jesse Chavez. 
 

We have plenty of depth.   If it’s not a high leverage guy I don’t see the point.  

[interloper]

How it shakes out to me right now:

1. Kimbrel - closer
2. Cano - main setup
3. Coulombe - alternate setup
4. Wells - alternate setup
5. Perez - matchup/middle
6. Webb - matchup/middle
7. Tate  - matchup/middle/groundball needed/starts the year somewhat low leverage
8. Irvin - long man

Baumann - traded at the end of camp
Baker - optioned
Vespi - optioned
Akin - optioned
Heasley - DFA'd
Zimmermann - optioned

Things will change, but if the season started today that's what I'd roll with. 

Edited February 6 by interloper

[wildbillhiccup]

5 minutes ago, interloper said:

I just had a peruse of the remaining free agent relievers and there is basically no one of interest left unless you like 40 year old Jesse Chavez. 

It's definitely slim pickings. To me Stanek and Hudson are the only two players left who are somewhat intriguing. It's a shame we didn't make the Burnes trade earlier in the off season. Quite a few solid RPs (non closers) have signed very reasonable contracts over the last few months. 

[interloper]

1 minute ago, RZNJ said:

We have plenty of depth.   If it’s not a high leverage guy I don’t see the point.  

I would feel more comfortable with one more ML guy as depth, personally, but I get this viewpoint. Elias may just be fine waiting until the deadline. 

[ThisIsBirdland]

5 minutes ago, interloper said:

How it shakes out to me right now:

1. Kimbrel - closer
2. Cano - main setup
3. Coulombe - alternate setup
4. Wells - alternate setup
5. Perez - matchup/middle
6. Webb - matchup/middle
7. Tate  - matchup/middle/groundball needed/starts the year somewhat low leverage
8. Irvin - long man

Baumann - traded at the end of camp
Baker - optioned
Vespi - optioned
Akin - optioned
Heasley - DFA'd
Zimmermann - optioned

Things will change, but if the season started today that's what I'd roll with. 

Generally agree. Webb/Baumann interchangeable for me depending on who has the better ST. Tate/Wells still carry an option if/when needed.