TT: Taking a look at the bullpen now that Hall is gone

[Sports Guy]

23 minutes ago, CaptainRedbeard said:

Agreed and even if Clase didn’t have those concerns, I don’t think it makes sense for the Orioles to trade any prospects better than Norby for a RP.  And I’d be very reluctant to part with McDermott or Povich now that Burnes was the SP acquisition and he and Means are FA after this year - we are in much better shape if one of the AAA guys pans out as a SP for 2025 and we only fill one other rotation spot through FA/trade.

I don’t think Elias would be in on a bigger name RP, but if we could get a solid setup type for Norby and/or some of the lesser non-SP prospects, I could see that.

But I think they’re content to keep Norby and hope he either improves his trade value for a trade deadline RP with a first half more like his second half last year, or ultimately fits in as a righty 2B/LF bench guy. 

No reason they can’t get a good arm for a Norby and Stowers.

[RZNJ]

14 minutes ago, interloper said:

How it shakes out to me right now:

1. Kimbrel - closer
2. Cano - main setup
3. Coulombe - alternate setup
4. Wells - alternate setup
5. Perez - matchup/middle
6. Webb - matchup/middle
7. Tate  - matchup/middle/groundball needed/starts the year somewhat low leverage
8. Irvin - long man

Baumann - traded at the end of camp
Baker - optioned
Vespi - optioned
Akin - optioned
Heasley - DFA'd
Zimmermann - optioned

Things will change, but if the season started today that's what I'd roll with. 

Heasley has an option.  Probably in Norfolks rotation.  If Tate looks rusty or ineffective in ST he starts at Norfolk and both Webb and Baumann make it.  If Tate looks good, one of Webb or Baumann stays and one gets DFA.  I think they’d be able to trade Baumann for something even if it’s not much.

Baumann is the only other guy besides Irvin who can go multiple innings.  Hyde loves his stuff and he’s got 5 years of service time.  Those things give him an edge on Webb.   All things equal, I do like Webb more.

Edited February 6 by RZNJ

[CaptainRedbeard]

28 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

No reason they can’t get a good arm for a Norby and Stowers.

Their trade value is high enough to net a solid RP piece, but they have to find a team that wants that deal. 

Right now even the likes of the Angels, Pirates and Royals are focused on adding. The only firm sellers are the A’s, Nats and White Sox, and the Rockies are just kind of unpredictable and clueless.

There’s some options on those 3 firm seller teams but not sure one matches up. 

Maybe a team that is in “buy” mode that sees Norby/Stowers as immediate lineup upgrades, and they otherwise have a strong pen that they’re willing to deal from? Holderman from PIT? I like him but not sure he’s worth Norby even with the many years of control.

Just feels like the opportunities will be way more available at the trade deadline. 

[CaptainRedbeard]

30 minutes ago, RZNJ said:

Heasley has an option.  Probably in Norfolks rotation.  If Tate looks rusty or ineffective in ST he starts at Norfolk and both Webb and Baumann make it.  If Tate looks good, one of Webb or Baumann stays and one gets DFA.  I think they’d be able to trade Baumann for something even if it’s not much.

Baumann is the only other guy besides Irvin who can go multiple innings.  Hyde loves his stuff and he’s got 5 years of service time.  Those things give him an edge on Webb.   All things equal, I do like Webb more.

The multiple innings thing is a good point and I don’t mind Baumann in that role. He just shouldn’t be out there with a (close) lead. 

However, I realize that Burnes is replacing Gibson so the innings are a wash there…but is it possible that with a full year of Grayson and Means our rotation will be pitching deep enough into games that we can get by with just Irvin in a multi-inning RP role? Webb can probably get that done well enough to be the second lesser-used cleanup option. 

[RZNJ]

2 minutes ago, CaptainRedbeard said:

The multiple innings thing is a good point and I don’t mind Baumann in that role. He just shouldn’t be out there with a (close) lead. 

However, I realize that Burnes is replacing Gibson so the innings are a wash there…but is it possible that with a full year of Grayson and Means our rotation will be pitching deep enough into games that we can get by with just Irvin in a multi-inning RP role? Webb can probably get that done well enough to be the second lesser-used cleanup option. 

Mike Baumann was inconsistent and frustrating at times but he did win 10 games, lose 1, while finishing 15 games, so I think he gets a little bit of a bad rap too.   He had some stretches in the first half where it looked like he was putting things together but he never really did.  Not a terrible rookie year though.  Sometimes pitchers get better.

[Frobby]

11 hours ago, sportsfan8703 said:

 

Is the Gunnar ROY pick able to be traded?  

No, only competitive balance picks can be traded.  

[wildbillhiccup]

38 minutes ago, CaptainRedbeard said:

Their trade value is high enough to net a solid RP piece, but they have to find a team that wants that deal. 

Right now even the likes of the Angels, Pirates and Royals are focused on adding. The only firm sellers are the A’s, Nats and White Sox, and the Rockies are just kind of unpredictable and clueless.

There’s some options on those 3 firm seller teams but not sure one matches up. 

Maybe a team that is in “buy” mode that sees Norby/Stowers as immediate lineup upgrades, and they otherwise have a strong pen that they’re willing to deal from? Holderman from PIT? I like him but not sure he’s worth Norby even with the many years of control.

Just feels like the opportunities will be way more available at the trade deadline. 

I wonder if a Hunter Harvey reunion might make sense? He's been very solid out of the bullpen for the last two seasons. And I imagine the Nats would definitely see Norby and Stowers as upgrades. I've never even heard of their projected starters in LF and CF. 

[Frobby]

6 minutes ago, wildbillhiccup said:

I wonder if a Hunter Harvey reunion might make sense? He's been very solid out of the bullpen for the last two seasons. And I imagine the Nats would definitely see Norby and Stowers as upgrades. I've never even heard of their projected starters in LF and CF. 

I like it.  

[interloper]

27 minutes ago, wildbillhiccup said:

I wonder if a Hunter Harvey reunion might make sense? He's been very solid out of the bullpen for the last two seasons. And I imagine the Nats would definitely see Norby and Stowers as upgrades. I've never even heard of their projected starters in LF and CF. 

20 minutes ago, Frobby said:

I like it.  

Norby AND Stowers for Harvey? Man I dunno about that. I know he stayed healthy last year but he still presents an awful lot of risk to give up two of your top offensive depth guys. 

You might be able to package Norby for a much more impactful (and less oft-injured) relief weapon at the deadline. 

All that said, if Harvey can be had for, like, Stowers straight up, I'd be interested in that. 

Edited February 6 by interloper

[Frobby]

1 minute ago, interloper said:

Norby AND Stowers for Harvey? Man I dunno about that. I know he stayed healthy last year but he still presents an awful lot of risk to give up two of your top offensive depth guys. 

You might be able to package Norby for a much more impactful relief weapon at the deadline. 

All that said, if Harvey can be had for, like, Stowers straight up, I'd be interested in that. 

I hadn’t thought too hard about the “both” part.  Still might do it though.  

[wildbillhiccup]

Just now, interloper said:

Norby AND Stowers for Harvey? Man I dunno about that. I know he stayed healthy last year but he still presents an awful lot of risk to give up two of your top offensive depth guys. 

You might be able to package Norby for a much more impactful relief weapon at the deadline. 

All that said, if Harvey can be had for, like, Stowers straight up, I'd be interested in that. 

I was thinking either/or (not both) when I posted the trade idea. I agree that both would be too much. 

[interloper]

1 minute ago, Frobby said:

I hadn’t thought too hard about the “both” part.  Still might do it though.  

I feel like this is surprisingly aggressive for you haha. Which is fine, I'm just intrigued that you'd consider it. 

Harvey IP:

2019: 6.1
2020: 8.2
2021: 8.2
2022: 39.1
2023: 60.2

You can say one thing - there's not a lot of mileage on that arm, so maybe that's a positive. But without researching his current health situation, I still consider that a large risk to give up Norby for, much less Norby and Stowers. You'd have Harvey for 2 years, and to come out ahead on that trade he'd have to stay healthy for most of that time, IMO. 

In a vacuum though, Harvey is a great fit. Would be funny for Elias to reacquire a guy he DFA'd. 

 

[Frobby]

4 minutes ago, interloper said:

I feel like this is surprisingly aggressive for you haha. Which is fine, I'm just intrigued that you'd consider it. 

Harvey IP:

2019: 6.1
2020: 8.2
2021: 8.2
2022: 39.1
2023: 60.2

You can say one thing - there's not a lot of mileage on that arm, so maybe that's a positive. But without researching his current health situation, I still consider that a large risk to give up Norby for, much less Norby and Stowers. You'd have Harvey for 2 years, and to come out ahead on that trade he'd have to stay healthy for most of that time, IMO. 

In a vacuum though, Harvey is a great fit. Would be funny for Elias to reacquire a guy he DFA'd. 

 

I’m feeling really sorry for Stowers and Norby.  Stowers now has 783 PA in AAA, Norby 675.   They’ve done about all they can do down there, yet neither one has a good shot at major league playing time.  

[interloper]

1 minute ago, Frobby said:

I’m feeling really sorry for Stowers and Norby.  Stowers now has 783 PA in AAA, Norby 675.   They’ve done about all they can do down there, yet neither one has a good shot at major league playing time.  

I know what you mean. Especially Stowers since he's already been up here and had some fluke injuries get in the way. I would think some rebuilding team would love to just plug him in for 500 ABs and see what they get. 

That said, if they aren't traded both players are almost certain to see ML time this year as two of the Orioles' top offensive depth pieces for the infield and outfield. Stowers' situation is worse though because he's behind Cowser and Kjerstad, while Norby really just needs an injury to any of Westburg, Holliday, Gunnar, or Urias. Mayo doesn't really factor in because he's 3B/1B/RF. 

I can easily see the Orioles holding Norby until the deadline, but it's tougher to see that with Stowers. They really need to find that guy a new home. 

[Aristotelian]

1 hour ago, Frobby said:

I’m feeling really sorry for Stowers and Norby.  Stowers now has 783 PA in AAA, Norby 675.   They’ve done about all they can do down there, yet neither one has a good shot at major league playing time.  

As I stare at our roster, I think Norby has a shot at a placeholder spot before Holliday is called up. We had thought Ortiz might grab a spot out of spring training, even starting SS, but those AB's could go to Norby. He's at least a step closer. But that spot could go to Vavra if he is healthy.