TT: Taking a look at the bullpen now that Hall is gone

[ThisIsBirdland]

9 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

Only 23, had some good stats last year. He’s a good get for Seattle, who already have some legit horses out there.

You need to get back over there. @Chicago White Sox is livid (justifiably IMO) because they just gave up a decent 20 year old AAA pitcher with good K numbers for a 26 year old, 5'-6", no power corner OF. Meanwhile they're still making fun of Elias for being a prospect hugger on their Cease thread. Absolute misery over there.

[oriolediehard]

5 hours ago, Sports Guy said:

Its The clear and obvious need right now.

They may have to get creative and get a failed starter, like Kopech, to do that.  Or maybe a prospect for prospect trade where you land a ML ready reliever.

But they have guys like Stowers,  Norby, Mounty, Santander, Hays, Urias and several other solid MiL prospects that should be able to  get you pitching help. There is too much talent and available service time for that not to happen.

We have discussed Edward Cabrera. Max Meyer may be a guy you can get and coming off the TJ surgery, you may want to limit his innings and build him up through the pen and move him to the pen next year.  Maybe the Marlins would discuss Andrew Nardi?:

https://baseballsavant.mlb.com/savant-player/andrew-nardi-677053?stats=statcast-r-pitching-mlb
 

Lots to like there.  May be tough to move to him with Puk going to the rotation but  they need offensive help and we can probably work something out here

Dauri Moreta from Pitt is a guy that could potentially work. Pitt is getting better and has a good farm system, so we may be able to match up with them as they look to contend soon.

https://baseballsavant.mlb.com/savant-player/dauri-moreta-664294?stats=statcast-r-pitching-mlb

 

Lucas Erceg from the As?  A lot of walks but maybe the Os can fix that?

https://baseballsavant.mlb.com/savant-player/lucas-erceg-668674?stats=statcast-r-pitching-mlb

Again, a lot to work with here. Would Oakland rather have him or a guy like Norby?

We need to keep in mind, that we need to hit to help our starters and BP!! Trading Santander and Mounty will weaken our offense.

[Sports Guy]

13 minutes ago, ThisIsBirdland said:

You need to get back over there. @Chicago White Sox is livid (justifiably IMO) because they just gave up a decent 20 year old AAA pitcher with good K numbers for a 26 year old, 5'-6", no power corner OF. Meanwhile they're still making fun of Elias for being a prospect hugger on their Cease thread. Absolute misery over there.

lol…they kept saying you don’t trade for Ortiz because he’s small.  These guys are so upside down it’s hilarious.  
 

Well at least Getz is asking for way too much for one of the 2 players they can trade for real value, so they have that going for them!

[dystopia]

1 hour ago, ThisIsBirdland said:

You need to get back over there. @Chicago White Sox is livid (justifiably IMO) because they just gave up a decent 20 year old AAA pitcher with good K numbers for a 26 year old, 5'-6", no power corner OF. Meanwhile they're still making fun of Elias for being a prospect hugger on their Cease thread. Absolute misery over there.

At least they can feel good about fleecing the Mariners. 

[ThisIsBirdland]

Back to the OP though, I agree they could use one more high end piece. There are somewhat interesting FAs who have been mentioned (Brasier, Stanek), plus some trade targets. I wouldn't even mind a shot on Liam Hendricks in a comparable move to bringing in Brandon Woodruff: taking a shot early on a post-deadline type of acquisition if the belief is there that they'll be back and effective in 2024.

With all that said, my guess is they wait and see how the current group performs. This is largely the same group (less Bautista and late season Hall, plus Kimbrel and Tate) that was for the most part very reliable last year. They of course did wear down, but the SPs should carry more of the load this year. Once struggling teams assess their playoff odds as the deadline approaches, I think a good RP target will present itself if needed.

Edited February 4 by ThisIsBirdland

[CaptainRedbeard]

2 hours ago, ThisIsBirdland said:

White Sox board seems pretty content to let him go; apparently bad clubhouse guy and very high injury risk.

One day I'll stop checking in over there, but not today apparently.

Based on Santos’ age, stuff, control and overall performance last year, he was a very solid trade piece. The projection systems love him. Doesn’t seem like the White Sox got much of a good return for him for all of those factors, so makes more sense if there were big injury & character concerns. 

Wasn’t sure the White Sox were even going to be willing to move him given the years of control, but he was one of the few RP with really good projections on bad teams. Further limits the pre-trade deadline options for the Orioles.

[EERinthe804]

I’d like to see the Os work out a trade where Santander goes to Marlins for high leverage RP and then Os sign Bellinger on 2 year deal.  Bellinger gives ultimate flexibility in outfield where all 3 starters could play CF.  The caveat to this is that Bellinger will likely get or already likely has better than a 2 year deal in hand.
 

[RZNJ]

38 minutes ago, EERinthe804 said:

I’d like to see the Os work out a trade where Santander goes to Marlins for high leverage RP and then Os sign Bellinger on 2 year deal.  Bellinger gives ultimate flexibility in outfield where all 3 starters could play CF.  The caveat to this is that Bellinger will likely get or already likely has better than a 2 year deal in hand.
 

I’d like the Orioles to discover that Felix Bautista is ambidextrous and can come back this year as a dominant lefty while his right elbow heals.

[Sports Guy]

41 minutes ago, EERinthe804 said:

I’d like to see the Os work out a trade where Santander goes to Marlins for high leverage RP and then Os sign Bellinger on 2 year deal.  Bellinger gives ultimate flexibility in outfield where all 3 starters could play CF.  The caveat to this is that Bellinger will likely get or already likely has better than a 2 year deal in hand.
 

Bellinger isn’t signing for 2 years 

[Sports Guy]

2021 Tyler Wells was a pretty solid reliever. He had solid statcast numbers, good K rates and the BB rate was really strong. The issue was homers and that will always be an issue for him imo.

So while I expect him to be good, do we trust him in high leverage, high pressure situations?  I think going into the year, that is up in the air. I think we should expect him to be good though.

[Billy F-Face3]

On 2/3/2024 at 10:47 AM, Tony-OH said:

They also need more strikeout guys for those extra innings with the runners starting at 2B.

That is most definitely a need and a strategy/situation worth thinking about. Especially now that we don't have Bautista for those situations this season.

We need a high leverage strikeout guy. Better yet if he's left handed.

[Tony-OH]

53 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

2021 Tyler Wells was a pretty solid reliever. He had solid statcast numbers, good K rates and the BB rate was really strong. The issue was homers and that will always be an issue for him imo.

So while I expect him to be good, do we trust him in high leverage, high pressure situations?  I think going into the year, that is up in the air. I think we should expect him to be good though.

Wells and Baumann are the guys that might be able to become that guy, but both will need a go to strikeout pitch to take that step. 

[CaptainRedbeard]

55 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

2021 Tyler Wells was a pretty solid reliever. He had solid statcast numbers, good K rates and the BB rate was really strong. The issue was homers and that will always be an issue for him imo.

So while I expect him to be good, do we trust him in high leverage, high pressure situations?  I think going into the year, that is up in the air. I think we should expect him to be good though.

2021 Tyler Wells had a 119 Stuff+. He had a well above average fastball, slider and changeup. 

2023 Tyler Wells, even in his 5 IP stint as a RP at the end of the year with his velo back, had a 92 Stuff+ and his fastball was still well below average. Only his changeup graded well and he still threw it less than 20% of the time.

His pitch metrics really eroded precipitously from 2021 to 2022 moving to the rotation, and then again from 2022 to 2023. 

So I think it really depends on if an offseason of rest and mechanical work and being put back into a RP workload will bring Wells back closer to the arsenal he was working with in 2021. 

I still think he could be a very effective RP with even a partial bounceback in his stuff, but I’ll be surprised if we see 2021 Tyler Wells again. 

[Frobby]

2 minutes ago, CaptainRedbeard said:

2021 Tyler Wells had a 119 Stuff+. He had a well above average fastball, slider and changeup. 

2023 Tyler Wells, even in his 5 IP stint as a RP at the end of the year with his velo back, had a 92 Stuff+ and his fastball was still well below average. Only his changeup graded well and he still threw it less than 20% of the time.

His pitch metrics really eroded precipitously from 2021 to 2022 moving to the rotation, and then again from 2022 to 2023. 

So I think it really depends on if an offseason of rest and mechanical work and being put back into a RP workload will bring Wells back closer to the arsenal he was working with in 2021. 

I still think he could be a very effective RP with even a partial bounceback in his stuff, but I’ll be surprised if we see 2021 Tyler Wells again. 

To me, sometimes I just don’t trust these types of metrics.  Stuff is not the only element of pitching well. Wells has excellent control, good pace, and mixes his pitches well.  He’s proven over and over to be very effective when not dealing with fatigue issues.   

[CaptainRedbeard]

3 minutes ago, Tony-OH said:

Wells and Baumann are the guys that might be able to become that guy, but both will need a go to strikeout pitch to take that step. 

Baumann I think has the pitches but his command is horrible. He leaves way too many fastballs and sliders in the middle to get hammered, and his curve is good but he can’t throw it for strikes or even consistently close enough to the strike zone to get chases. I think he generally needs command improvements across all 3 pitches, or at least WAY improved command (and through that more frequent usage) of the curve. 

Wells has the command but he needs the fastball velo back so he can get away with more fastballs that leak down out of the top of the zone where he wants to live with it. And I agree he needs to figure out something better with his offspeed to have a better go-to as a RP. Probably simplify his cutter/curve/slider options to narrow to one plus option against RH and use his change way more often, especially against LH.