Jackson Holliday spring training watch

[banks703]

28 minutes ago, Tony-OH said:

That chart is really interesting, thanks for sharing. Here's the thing to remember about arm strength at SS, while it's important, it's not the be all, end all if your can throw accurately and transfer quickly. Take Dansby Swanson from the Braves, he has 19th percentile throwing but was worth 20 OAA and 15 fielding runs. 

So even if Holliday's arm does not improve and judging by a few videos I've seen this spring it does not appear it's going to be a strength for him, that does not necessarily mean he can't become a good major league shortstop.

Now is he better than Gunnar Henderson right now? No, I don't think so and besides Law, I don't think any other evaluator would say so. Will he be better in a few years if Gunnar's range, which is average now, becomes below average due to him getting bigger and older? Perhaps.

I think over the next few years at least, Gunnar is going to be at SS and Holliday at 2B. But it would not surprise me in 3-4 years if Gunnar doesn't move over to 3B and depending on who is ready (remember the Orioles have some highly thought of International SSs developing) Holliday could move to SS or he may just stay at 2B because he's comfortable there by then and because he'll probably end up a plus defender at 2B. 

It’s all of the other things for me when it comes to where he ultimately ends up long-term. I just see the range being a factor, the stiff hips, the inability to cut off in the betweeners, not being comfortable or fluid fielding to his hand side, etc etc. the list goes on for why I think he’s just better suited for 2B, even if Gunnar eventually outgrows third, which I am not convinced that he does but time will tell.

I don’t think that it devalues JH if he ends up a career 2B. I see a Robinson Cano career for him, which, would be pretty damn amazing and make him a HoF player in my eyes. There’s a lot to like about him as a 20 year old prospect (obviously) but I just don’t see the physical makeup for an ideal ML SS, especially when the O’s have prioritized defense at the position and have internal options who are far and away better defensively there. He’s going to improve but I just don’t see him ever being a good defensive SS. 

[Tony-OH]

42 minutes ago, banks703 said:

It’s all of the other things for me when it comes to where he ultimately ends up long-term. I just see the range being a factor, the stiff hips, the inability to cut off in the betweeners, not being comfortable or fluid fielding to his hand side, etc etc. the list goes on for why I think he’s just better suited for 2B, even if Gunnar eventually outgrows third, which I am not convinced that he does but time will tell.

I don’t think that it devalues JH if he ends up a career 2B. I see a Robinson Cano career for him, which, would be pretty damn amazing and make him a HoF player in my eyes. There’s a lot to like about him as a 20 year old prospect (obviously) but I just don’t see the physical makeup for an ideal ML SS, especially when the O’s have prioritized defense at the position and have internal options who are far and away better defensively there. He’s going to improve but I just don’t see him ever being a good defensive SS. 

I think that's a valid take and I get what you are saying. I too do not see that explosive first step you'd like to see from your shortstop but then again, you could probably say that about Mike Bordick. Does he have the ideal tools and quickness to be an elite defensive shortstop, I'd say probably not, but its not out of the question that he could improve enough to play there effectively one day.

I agree with you that right now, his home should be second base. It very well may end up his "forever" home defensively or maybe one day they Robin Yount him and send him to center field to use his speed. Who knows, but we all know his bat is going to play at the major league level at some point and he's going to end up a very good defender somewhere.

[banks703]

10 minutes ago, Tony-OH said:

I think that's a valid take and I get what you are saying. I too do not see that explosive first step you'd like to see from your shortstop but then again, you could probably say that about Mike Bordick. Does he have the ideal tools and quickness to be an elite defensive shortstop, I'd say probably not, but its not out of the question that he could improve enough to play there effectively one day.

I agree with you that right now, his home should be second base. It very well may end up his "forever" home defensively or maybe one day they Robin Yount him and send him to center field to use his speed. Who knows, but we all know his bat is going to play at the major league level at some point and he's going to end up a very good defender somewhere.

I have been suggesting that a move to the OF is still not out of the question for him. I think his tools may even play up out there in Center. If it's 2026 and EBJ has not broken into the lineup as the starting CFer, I think it's a very real possibility that they explore JH out in Center. 

[Explosivo]

1 minute ago, banks703 said:

I have been suggesting that a move to the OF is still not out of the question for him. I think his tools may even play up out there in Center. If it's 2026 and EBJ has not broken into the lineup as the starting CFer, I think it's a very real possibility that they explore JH out in Center. 

While not impossible, no, no one is saying that. No one is even thinking that but you.

[sevastras]

56 minutes ago, Explosivo said:

While not impossible, no, no one is saying that. No one is even thinking that but you.

. Let’s just be happy with an elite hitting 2B, SS and catcher. Possibly, if you really needed help you could use Holliday in LF. 

[banks703]

1 hour ago, Explosivo said:

While not impossible, no, no one is saying that. No one is even thinking that but you.

Right right. Just like no one else was saying that he would end up playing 2B when I was posting that almost a year back. 2B is where I think he is best suited given his profile. But we shall see.

Behind EBJ, Cowser is probably the next best CF prospect in their system and while I am a very strong advocate for CC as a CFer, he has to prove that he can man Center in big league ballparks with the third deck. I think he will be fine but we shall see. JH’s maybe their next best athlete in their system behind EBJ. I have no doubt that he could play the outfield, especially if he begins learning it now at only 20 years old.

Pin this post of yours and let’s revisit in two years. 

Edited February 24 by banks703

[Frobby]

Holliday definitely looks like he’s hit the weight room.  Swung through a pretty hittable breaking ball in his first at bat.  

[CP0861]

2 hours ago, Frobby said:

Holliday definitely looks like he’s hit the weight room.  Swung through a pretty hittable breaking ball in his first at bat.  

To me, he looked like he was trying to kill it a bit too much in both at bats. He pulled out a bit on the K swing and took a big final cut on the 2nd AB also. Eager young buck swings. And yes, the biceps looked legit. He wasn't small last year - I think his 14 year old babyface throws people off, but he's definitely noticeably bigger.

Edited February 24 by CP0861

[Just Regular]

Assuming it is basically Ramon v. JH for the last infield starting position, veteranosity I guess no biggie but I didn't think it was a good look for Urias only being on 1st after that dropped popup.

But even Elias said today was about feeling the sunshine and that's pretty much it.

[spleen1015]

3 hours ago, banks703 said:

Right right. Just like no one else was saying that he would end up playing 2B when I was posting that almost a year back. 2B is where I think he is best suited given his profile. But we shall see.

Behind EBJ, Cowser is probably the next best CF prospect in their system and while I am a very strong advocate for CC as a CFer, he has to prove that he can man Center in big league ballparks with the third deck. I think he will be fine but we shall see. JH’s maybe their next best athlete in their system behind EBJ. I have no doubt that he could play the outfield, especially if he begins learning it now at only 20 years old.

Pin this post of yours and let’s revisit in two years. 

[Sports Guy]

Just now, spleen1015 said:

It’s funny that he’s patting himself on the back and he’s really telling a bs story.  

[Can_of_corn]

3 hours ago, Frobby said:

Holliday definitely looks like he’s hit the weight room.  Swung through a pretty hittable breaking ball in his first at bat.  

Probably muscle bound. 

[emmett16]

6 hours ago, banks703 said:

I just see the range being a factor, the stiff hips, the inability to cut off in the betweeners, not being comfortable or fluid fielding to his hand side, etc etc. the list goes on for why I think he’s just better suited for 2B

Can you post vide on any of the above to illustrate what you say he’s doing poorly vs. what you think he should be doing?  Genuinely curious.  

[emmett16]

3 hours ago, Frobby said:

Holliday definitely looks like he’s hit the weight room.  Swung through a pretty hittable breaking ball in his first at bat.  

According to the socials, all he did was lift, hit, and eat all Off-season…..oh, and get married.  He is very noticeably bigger.  I blame married life for swinging through that breaking ball.  It takes a toll.  

[Sports Guy]

16 minutes ago, emmett16 said:

According to the socials, all he did was lift, hit, and eat all Off-season…..oh, and get married.  He is very noticeably bigger.  I blame married life for swinging through that breaking ball.  It takes a toll.  

The difference in his lifting numbers is pretty staggering.  Kid clearly is willing to work. That is huge.