Oh no, Hill not starting today

[Crazysilver03]

If he is injured can he be DL's for a lengthy amount of time to skirt the rule where we lose him if he doesn't spend all year on the 25 man roster?

You have two things confused here.

We have Hill's rights. He is out of options. If he doesn't make the team he must be passed through waivers. If he clears waivers, he can be outrighted to the minors by the Orioles.

What you are thinking of is the Rule 5 draft. Players are selected by major league teams out of different organizations when they are not placed on the 40 man roster for protection purposes. If these players do not make the 25 man roster out of ST, they must be offered back to their original organization. If they make the the 25 man roster they must remain on the roster the entire season.

In both scenarios, players can be stashed on the DL and then they can have 30 days (in a pitchers case) of rehabilitation time in the minors.

[Crazysilver03]

http://masnsports.com/2009/03/injury-updates-1.html

An X-ray on Rich Hill's left elbow came back negative, but he was scheduled for an MRI today at 11 a.m. as a precaution. The Orioles aren't sure whether they'll have the results later today.

Hill isn't expected to pitch in tomorrow's intrasquad game, no matter what the MRI shows.

"There's nothing on the X-ray," manager Dave Trembley said. "Now they're going to go with an MRI to rule out every possibility. The guy's getting the whole kitchen sink. They're giving him every conceivable workup possible to rule out everything. The X-ray, nothing, so now they're going to move to an MRI to make sure that's clean, as well."

Well that is good that the x-ray shows nothing!

[byrdz]

http://masnsports.com/2009/03/injury-updates-1.html

Well that is good that the x-ray shows nothing!

Good news! Sounds like they are just being ultra-precautious with the pitchers. This is good to hear as long as they're taking that same level of precautionary measure in their conditioning, up front. I sense that they are from some of the underlying things that I've heard. ie Patton, Albers, Baez and Ray treament..

If these players do not make the 25 man roster out of ST, they must be offered back to their original organization

I have a question on this since you're the man that knows these sort of things. What happens in the event that the original team doesn't want the player back? What's the status of the player then?

[Crazysilver03]

What happens in the event that the original team doesn't want the player back? What's the status of the player then?

The Mets paid the Orioles $50,000 to select Rocky Cherry in the Rule 5 draft. If Cherry doesn't make the Met's roster, one of the options that can occur is that he can be offered back to the Orioles for $25,000, but the Orioles might just want to keep that $25,000, as there just isn't space for Cherry in the minors.

In this case, the Mets could try to work out a trade, where they obtain Cherry's full rights from the Orioles, so they can keep him in their organization and option him to their AAA team (as he does have one or two option years remaining.)

From this point on, the Mets would have to pass Cherry through waivers like any other player to get them off the 40 man roster. At this point, he is exposed to all the teams again, but the stipulation still applies that he must remain on that team's 25 man roster for the season if he is claimed.

[srock]

The Mets paid the Orioles $50,000 to select Rocky Cherry in the Rule 5 draft. If Cherry doesn't make the Met's roster, one of the options that can occur is that he can be offered back to the Orioles for $25,000, but the Orioles might just want to keep that $25,000, as there just isn't space for Cherry in the minors.

In this case, the Mets could try to work out a trade, where they obtain Cherry's full rights from the Orioles, so they can keep him in their organization and option him to their AAA team (as he does have one or two option years remaining.)

From this point on, the Mets would have to pass Cherry through waivers like any other player to get them off the 40 man roster. At this point, he is exposed to all the teams again, but the stipulation still applies that he must remain on that team's 25 man roster for the season if he is claimed.

Good to know.

So, theoretically, if someone in Hill's position were to suffer a serious injury they could be put on the DL to delay going through waivers. But, with a serious injury the chances of him clearing waivers are pretty good, so he could be optioned to the minors and/or put on the DL.

Therefore, injury to Hill, while bad short term because we want to pitch well, isn't so bad long term. It is unlikely the organization loses anything without some sort of return.

[Rex Thunder]

I agree that if Hill has stiffness in the elbow its good the team is cautious with him. I just think that if Hill or Albers or Patton have stiffness in their arms that makes them miss time it is more serious then if Parrish gets the same thing.

First, he has a history of health problems.

Second, he missed alot of time last year.

Third, he is one of the favorite to be in the rotation.

Fourth, even if he was healthy he would still have to prove he can still throw strikes consistently. Its pretty hard to prove anything when he can't get on the mound.

Now if he is back on the mound in a few days and pitches well, the concern is lessened but if not.........................

Which is exactly why you are jumping the gun here. If anything- Trembley happily plays it cautious because it gives plenty of reason to allow any number of other prospects to start and get some time. I think the front office pretty much knows that they are keeping Hill on the 40 man- unless he is an absolute train wreck.

If they threw him out there after he complained of shoulder stiffness I'm sure there would be just as many people screaming, "Why are we rushing him when we have 37 pitchers in camp!!!!!!"

[wildcard]

Which is exactly why you are jumping the gun here. If anything- Trembley happily plays it cautious because it gives plenty of reason to allow any number of other prospects to start and get some time. I think the front office pretty much knows that they are keeping Hill on the 40 man- unless he is an absolute train wreck.

If they threw him out there after he complained of shoulder stiffness I'm sure there would be just as many people screaming, "Why are we rushing him when we have 37 pitchers in camp!!!!!!"

I am sure that Trembley is not glad that Hill is missing time. He has plenty of ways to look at other pitchers with Guthrie at the WBC and the 4th and 5th starters not known yet.

Trembley is being cautious with Hill because it is the smart thing to do, not so he has space to look at other pitchers.

[Crazysilver03]

Good to know.

So, theoretically, if someone in Hill's position were to suffer a serious injury they could be put on the DL to delay going through waivers. But, with a serious injury the chances of him clearing waivers are pretty good, so he could be optioned to the minors and/or put on the DL.

Therefore, injury to Hill, while bad short term because we want to pitch well, isn't so bad long term. It is unlikely the organization loses anything without some sort of return.

Being optioned to the minors and clearing waivers are two different things. You can be optioned to the minors when you are on the 40 man roster roster and have option years remaining. The player remains on the 40 man roster but is removed from the active 25 man roster. All of this is explained here: Option Years - 2009 Baltimore Orioles.

While you can have options remaining, clearing waivers removes you from the 40 man roster as well as the 25 man roster. Also, to clear waivers, you must be exposed to all 29 teams, who can claim you.

If a player is injured, they must go on the DL, they can't be released because of an injury. He would have to go on the DL. As stated though, he would be provided 30 days (6 starts) in the minors on his rehabilitation assignment before he would have to be recalled from the 15 day DL.

[BillySmith]

The Orioles are waiting for the complete results of Rich Hill's MRI, but he said an early reading showed some fluid in his left elbow that isn't considered serious.

"I think it's all right," Hill said. "There's some fluid built up in there and it's making the joint not as mobile. But I'm not discouraged by it because I threw the day after I started feeling the stiffness in my elbow and the ball was coming out fine. I just haven't thrown in a couple days."

[Roll Tide]

The Orioles are waiting for the complete results of Rich Hill's MRI, but he said an early reading showed some fluid in his left elbow that isn't considered serious.

"I think it's all right," Hill said. "There's some fluid built up in there and it's making the joint not as mobile. But I'm not discouraged by it because I threw the day after I started feeling the stiffness in my elbow and the ball was coming out fine. I just haven't thrown in a couple days."

Usually Fluid forms in a joint to protect a injury right????:eektf:

[srock]

Usually Fluid forms in a joint to protect a injury right????:eektf:

Fluid forms in joints for a variety of reasons. I'm not a doctor, but I play one on the internet.

[byrdz]

Fluid forms in joints for a variety of reasons.

Any of them bad reasons?

[LookitsPuck]

Usually Fluid forms in a joint to protect a injury right????:eektf:

Could be a number of things. Inflammation, injury, etc.

[Frobby]

Roch's latest:

Good news from Rich Hill today. He says the MRI on his left elbow didn't reveal any structural damage.

Hill is dealing with some swelling in the elbow caused by a build-up of fluid. He has better range of motion in his arm today, but no idea when he'll be cleared to resume throwing.

"We just don't want to push it to the point where you don't have full range of motion and you go out there and pitch and create more problems," he said. "What happened is it just got irritated and swelled up."

http://masnsports.com/2009/03/another-update-on-hill.html

[Roll Tide]

Roch's latest:

http://masnsports.com/2009/03/another-update-on-hill.html

Good news ...Rather guarded ...But good news none the less.