What happened to Dontrelle Willis?

[tvz1997]

So I was just reading the new Jayson Stark article on Dontrelle's latest horrific outting. What the heck happened to him? I mean this guy wasn't another Jose Mercedes. I thought he was almost universally accepted as "the real thing".

[geschinger]

So I was just reading the new Jayson Stark article on Dontrelle's latest horrific outting. What the heck happened to him? I mean this guy wasn't another Jose Mercedes. I thought he was almost universally accepted as "the real thing".

He was not the same guy after Kranitz changed his delivery. I think he lost a lot of the deception he had previously.

[Boy Howdy]

He was not the same guy after Kranitz changed his delivery. I think he lost a lot of the deception he had previously.

That's pretty much what the consensus of the scouts, so I think it has some merit.

I always think about this when the question of what happened to the D-Train is raised, too:

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2705991

Florida Marlins pitcher Dontrelle Willis was released from jail Friday after being charged with drunken driving when a police officer noticed him stumbling and confused outside his car in Miami Beach.

(Of course, Kranitz probably drove him to drink. Kidding, just kidding)

[wildcard]

I don't understand this. If you are doing great and someone changes your delivery and you do terrible, don't you change back?

[TakebackOPACY]

He was not the same guy after Kranitz changed his delivery. I think he lost a lot of the deception he had previously.

What do you have to support this claim? I never heard this before, so I googled around and can't find anything.

When I saw Dontrelle Willis in the World Baseball Classic' date=' he looked like a mess. His mechanics were so messed up that when Yahoo! Sports' Jeff Passan asked me to explain what was wrong, I said "the only thing right is that the ball is going towards the plate." Pitching coach Rick Kranitz saw the same thing and was able to correct the flaws once Willis returned to the team; for the first couple starts, it looked more like the Willis we've seen for the past couple seasons. Now, the problems are back, making it tough to blame the WBC and easy to worry that Willis' mechanics are naturally degenerating.[/quote']

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2006/baseball/mlb/05/12/extra.mustard/index.html

"I think we were the most prepared team in all of baseball," Willis says. "If I didn't make this pitch and they hit a home run, I understood why. I wasn't in the dark about anything. We knew exactly what we needed to do and when we did it, it was absolutely because we were prepared. There were no surprises."

http://www.baseballamerica.com/today/majors/features/262963.html

For what it's worth, Willis was removed from his final game in 2006 with elbow pain.

http://florida.marlins.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20061001&content_id=1693343&vkey=news_fla&fext=.jsp&c_id=fla

I'm not saying I have any idea whether that's connected to his problems after that.

I don't understand this. If you are doing great and someone changes your delivery and you do terrible, don't you change back?

Yup. Willis has probably been pitching since he was a kid, and we're going to speculate that his problems are the fault of a coach with whom he spent two seasons after he was already an adult established major league pitcher?

[crawdad]

Yeah, Kranitz had little to do with Willis' death spiral. It is sort of the thrower mentality. Willis has never really pitched and his effectiveness is based on specific repeatability and command of his pitches. He has lost that. His mechanics have always been a mess, but they look worse now.

I said then that dealing for Willis may have made sense if that is what got you Cabrera, but giving him an extension was nuts. The guy was obviously sunk at that point.

[TakebackOPACY]

He was not the same guy after Kranitz changed his delivery. I think he lost a lot of the deception he had previously.

By the way, in his 7 start, 24 inning 2008 season, opponents hit just .209 against him. But he walked 35 batters, so I don't think deception was his problem.

[geschinger]

What do you have to support this claim? I never heard this before, so I googled around and can't find anything.

I lived in SoFla at the time and it was well reported the changes that Kranitz was trying to get Dontrelle to make to "clean up" his delivery. Sign up for the Palm Beach Post or Sun Sentinel archives and you should find plenty of articles referencing the changes.

Yup. Willis has probably been pitching since he was a kid, and we're going to speculate that his problems are the fault of a coach with whom he spent two seasons after he was already an adult established major league pitcher?

I'm not saying it's his fault, there were probably good reasons for the changes for his long term health and give him more consistency. It would have been hard to predict it would be a catalyst for him losing his effectiveness. I don't hold Willis' collapse against Kranitz.

[TakebackOPACY]

I lived in SoFla at the time and it was well reported the changes that Kranitz was trying to get Dontrelle to make to "clean up" his delivery. Sign up for the Palm Beach Post or Sun Sentinel archives and you should find plenty of articles referencing the changes.

I'm not saying it's his fault, there were probably good reasons for the changes for his long term health and give him more consistency. It would have been hard to predict it would be a catalyst for him losing his effectiveness. I don't hold Willis' collapse against Kranitz.

I'm not saying I know the answer or whether Kranitz has any culpability. I found blurbs from some articles, but didn't bother reading the whole articles. The blurbs and the dates of those blurbs sure made it appear that Kranitz' tinkering was a response to ineffectiveness and not an initial cause of ineffectiveness.

I found some good stuff:

D-Train's Mechanics (The Hardball Times)

The Gradual Collapse of Dontrelle Willis (baseball-intellect)

My conclusion (not final conclusion) after reading those articles:

1. It was common sense that his pitching coaches were going to try to slow him down to help clean up his mechanics when he struggled.

2. Slowing him down backfired.

3. They wouldn't have slowed him down in the first place if he hadn't had his obvious struggles. It seems he would have struggled had the pitching coaches not done their thing, too.

His current coach has him playing catch 'properly' while they chat. The thinking is that if you can play catch properly, it'll eventually show up in your pitching. Also, they're hoping this will be a better method to avoid getting him to think too much out there.

It's a good idea until it doesn't work.

[geschinger]

I'm not saying I know the answer or whether Kranitz has any culpability. I found blurbs from some articles, but didn't bother reading the whole articles. The blurbs and the dates of those blurbs sure made it appear that Kranitz' tinkering was a response to ineffectiveness and not an initial cause of ineffectiveness.

It is my recollection that the work to change his mechanics began prior to the 2007 season. He struggled with his control in 2006 compared to 2005 but his overall performance was still solid. I don't think it would be accurate to say that the tinkering was in response to ineffectiveness but rather maybe the assumption that he could be better

My conclusion (not final conclusion) after reading those articles:

1. It was common sense that his pitching coaches were going to try to slow him down to help clean up his mechanics when he struggled.

Agree although again, I think the changes in mechanics began while he was still pitching well.

2. Slowing him down backfired.

Agree although that isn't the only change

3. They wouldn't have slowed him down in the first place if he hadn't had his obvious struggles. It seems he would have struggled had the pitching coaches not done their thing, too.

Again, I disagree based on the timing of the changes of his mechanics. I wouldn't consider his year in 2006 to be one of obvious struggles.

It's a good idea until it doesn't work.

Yup, that is usually how it ends up.

BTW, I know I had posted about this before and if you want to read more in depth about how Willis during the Kranitz regime look at Sun Sentinel archives from 10/20/07 back 3 or 4 weeks and you'll find it discussed in detail. I'd find it and send you a link if it didn't require paying to access the archives.

[giantfan]

Hes never had great stuff, hes always been about deception. During his hey day lefties would never get a hit vs him, he was untouchable. Hes just not that guy anymore.

[TakebackOPACY]

Hes never had great stuff, hes always been about deception. During his hey day lefties would never get a hit vs him, he was untouchable. Hes just not that guy anymore.

Despite his 4.47 minor league ERA last year, lefties hit just .216 off of him. Despite his 9.38 major league ERA last year, lefties hit just .125 off of him.

[ugen64]

Despite his 4.47 minor league ERA last year, lefties hit just .216 off of him. Despite his 9.38 major league ERA last year, lefties hit just .125 off of him.

Yeah but his control is still terrible against lefties - here. His strikeout rates against lefties and righties have been pretty consistent throughout his career.