Jackson Holliday 2024

[OnlyOneOriole]

3 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

Well in order for me to be 100% wrong he's have to be what?  In a coma?  Suffering from full body paralysis?

I think he's a talented young man who put a lot of offseason work into getting stronger.

In this thread last month you lambasted me because I said JH was not that strong and looked weak.  You as a result said that JH squats and DLs 800 pounds.  You went on and on about how wrong I was and how strong JH was. 

I literally LAUGHED for a solid minute after reading that but didn't respond because I thought you had to be joking and you have continually cut me down in almost any post I make so I let it go.

But then you doubled down with your comment earlier today about his power lifting numbers....again.

So since I know that you directed that comment at me, it is time for me to come at you with some cold hard facts and to show  how wrong...not just wrong but in another universe wrong...that you were and are. 

[spleen1015]

29 minutes ago, Malike said:

Bowlers are elite athletes. They walk 2 feet and throw a ball then go sit down until it's their turn again. They know what an elite athlete looks like.

Hey man. If you're going to make fun of bowling, at least get your details right. The furthest set of dots from the foul line is 15 feet. The closest set is 12 feet.

[OnlyOneOriole]

32 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

Please stop talking about you.  No one gives a f*** about anything to do with your life, your bowling ball, your wife or anything else you try to pat yourself on the back about.  Your life is meaningless to the rest of us.  Get that through your head.

And yes, fields can be an issue and he is a good fielder.  You don’t know what you are talking about.  Again, get that through your head.

He has had scouts, people around the game, etc…laud him for his defense and talk about how well he moves. He is learning and likely making dumb mistakes, like all players do. 
 

Errors mean very little without context and that is a well accepted opinion around the game. 
 

Have your doubts all you want..much less everything else you say on here, your take will look dumb soon enough.

 

That is fine.  You can have your opinion.

However it is my strong opinion that you have no idea what you are talking about. 

[Just Regular]

Maybe as big a decision Elias has in the next few months is whether to make him a priority play for the tournament.    His talent evaluation results overall are pretty good.

MLB's 1-1 high school infielders since 1990 are:

Best - Chipper, A-Rod, Mauer, Bryce (honorary status as a recent infield convert)

Middle - Adrian Gonzalez, BJ Upton*, Justin Upton, Correa, Royce Lewis

Worst - Matt Bush, Tim Beckham

*BJ Upton went 1-2 but commanded more bonus so as Elias has taught us each draft pool dollar means something.

The Orioles have also put a lot of time into Jorge Mateo with nice return, and it may be bad process to tinker with your keystone combo too close to the big dance.   Time horizon is more like weeks if you want half a season for them to gel, and the glass is half full.   

Glass half empty, I guess it still isn't out of the range of outcomes Holliday ending up with the Mountcastle International League MVP and a little bit more to work on kind of deal.

[Can_of_corn]

12 minutes ago, OnlyOneOriole said:

In this thread last month you lambasted me because I said JH was not that strong and looked weak.  You as a result said that JH squats and DLs 800 pounds.  You went on and on about how wrong I was and how strong JH was. 

I literally LAUGHED for a solid minute after reading that but didn't respond because I thought you had to be joking and you have continually cut me down in almost any post I make so I let it go.

But then you doubled down with your comment earlier today about his power lifting numbers....again.

So since I know that you directed that comment at me, it is time for me to come at you with some cold hard facts and to show  how wrong...not just wrong but in another universe wrong...that you were and are. 

The link you posted didn't say anything about 800 pounds. 

I don't recall the exact article I linked earlier but his one says 455, which is a lot less that 600 and no where near 800.

https://www.baltimoresun.com/2024/02/20/orioles-jackson-holliday-offseason-training-program/

This says 425:

https://www.instagram.com/p/CoQDO6sjzEt/

 

So someone said something else, you had a fit about it.  Then today someone said 800 pounds, as a joke, and you ran with it.

 

 

[OnlyOneOriole]

1 minute ago, Just Regular said:

Maybe as big a decision Elias has in the next few months is whether to make him a priority play for the tournament.    His talent evaluation results overall are pretty good.

MLB's 1-1 high school infielders since 1990 are:

Best - Chipper, A-Rod, Mauer, Bryce (honorary status as a recent infield convert)

Middle - Adrian Gonzalez, BJ Upton*, Justin Upton, Correa, Royce Lewis

Worst - Matt Bush, Tim Beckham

*BJ Upton went 1-2 but commanded more bonus so as Elias has taught us each draft pool dollar means something.

The Orioles have also put a lot of time into Jorge Mateo with nice return, and it may be bad process to tinker with your keystone combo too close to the big dance.   Time horizon is more like weeks if you want half a season for them to gel, and the glass is half full.   

Glass half empty, I guess it still isn't out of the range of outcomes Holliday ending up with the Mountcastle International League MVP and a little bit more to work on kind of deal.

I don't even think there is a debate right now.   JH is struggling in the field and at the plate in AAA.  Not good in any respect.

 

If anything he should be sent back down to AA to get his mind and physicality right. 

[OnlyOneOriole]

1 minute ago, Can_of_corn said:

The link you posted didn't say anything about 800 pounds. 

I don't recall the exact article I linked earlier but his one says 455, which is a lot less that 600 and no where near 800.

https://www.baltimoresun.com/2024/02/20/orioles-jackson-holliday-offseason-training-program/

This says 425:

https://www.instagram.com/p/CoQDO6sjzEt/

 

So someone said something else, you had a fit about it.  Then today someone said 800 pounds, as a joke, and you ran with it.

 

 

I am not going to be an internet stool pigeon and look up your prior posts, but I know exactly what you were saying in your posts in April and May.

And again, even if you think those numbers above are good?   They are nothing special.   So not only did you double down with your 800 pound number, but then you have tripled down with thinking those above numbers mean anything.

Not trying to be a **** to you but you have NO idea what lifting numbers mean.  As a 20 year old kid, getting top notch advice....if he didn't BP 300, squat 350, and DL 400?  He is way behind the curve.

I have done a 450 BP, a 520 squat, and a 600 DL and I am wayyyyy older than him.   And not a pro baseball player.   I realize that his numbers may seem high to you?  But trust me to an athlete these days?  They are nothing. 

 

Anthony Richardson for example, a NFL quarterback, can squat 500 and deadlift 640.   And he is what...a year older than JH?

 

Stop making JH out to be this super elite athlete.  He just isn't. 

[e16bball]

1 hour ago, OnlyOneOriole said:

The issue is, and this needs to be talked about, is was he so "Tiger Woodsed" by his dad, in other words pointed towards a sport and made to play that 24/7 (baseball and also with obvious talent) over other athletes that played many other sports besides baseball growing up......that has he had an advantage playing baseball specifically  as a kid?  And has had that advantage up to age 20 compared to kids who didn't devote as much time to baseball but are better athletes, who played many other sports, and who have a higher ceiling as a result?

Because I just do not see any sort of elite athleticism in JH.  I see a player who had been trained his entire life to play baseball and as a result is way ahead of most other players his age.  Not sure I see anything elite. 

Tiger Woods, of course, standing as an excellent example of a guy who was precociously skilled at a sport at a very young age (because his dad made him play) but never quite got there as a pro.

There’s some merit to what you’re referencing here. I would absolutely buy that his lifelong exposure to baseball is a significant factor in his success at a young age. But I think that type of thing is far more applicable when evaluating youth or high school, maybe college level players. At lower levels and younger ages, I suspect extreme advantages in experience, practice time, and hands-on coaching can absolutely give a less talented kid a leg up.

However, I think there’s a ceiling for how far a ho-hum kid can go on the back of force-fed baseball obsession — and I’m pretty sure that ceiling is a lot lower than “excellent hitter at AAA at age 20.“ I think you have to have the goods to reach that level, no matter how much baseball your daddy exposed you to as a kid.

Ceiling-wise, as I’ve said, I do think he’s probably lower than some of these absolute tool demons like Gunnar and Witt and Acuna. I would not trade Gunnar for him, for example. But lots of these guys I’ve compared him to as 2Bs (Cano, Utley, Altuve, Pedroia, Kinsler) were not super tooled-up guys, and they’re all among the 25-50 most valuable players of the last 25 years or so. I don’t know that you have to be a Greek god to be a perennial All-Star type player, at least at that particular position.
 

[Can_of_corn]

2 minutes ago, e16bball said:

Tiger Woods, of course, standing as an excellent example of a guy who was precociously skilled at a sport at a very young age (because his dad made him play) but never quite got there as a pro.

 

Or the Williams sisters, but I doubt he'd mention girls.

 

[Sports Guy]

36 minutes ago, OnlyOneOriole said:

That is fine.  You can have your opinion.

However it is my strong opinion that you have no idea what you are talking about. 

That makes me feel better about things

[OnlyOneOriole]

35 minutes ago, e16bball said:

Tiger Woods, of course, standing as an excellent example of a guy who was precociously skilled at a sport at a very young age (because his dad made him play) but never quite got there as a pro.

There’s some merit to what you’re referencing here. I would absolutely buy that his lifelong exposure to baseball is a significant factor in his success at a young age. But I think that type of thing is far more applicable when evaluating youth or high school, maybe college level players. At lower levels and younger ages, I suspect extreme advantages in experience, practice time, and hands-on coaching can absolutely give a less talented kid a leg up.

However, I think there’s a ceiling for how far a ho-hum kid can go on the back of force-fed baseball obsession — and I’m pretty sure that ceiling is a lot lower than “excellent hitter at AAA at age 20.“ I think you have to have the goods to reach that level, no matter how much baseball your daddy exposed you to as a kid.

Ceiling-wise, as I’ve said, I do think he’s probably lower than some of these absolute tool demons like Gunnar and Witt and Acuna. I would not trade Gunnar for him, for example. But lots of these guys I’ve compared him to as 2Bs (Cano, Utley, Altuve, Pedroia, Kinsler) were not super tooled-up guys, and they’re all among the 25-50 most valuable players of the last 25 years or so. I don’t know that you have to be a Greek god to be a perennial All-Star type player, at least at that particular position.
 

That is a really good post.  I agree with almost everything that you said. 

The only real issue is there have been lots of dads that have trained their sons to be elite in any particular sport.  From tennis to golf to baseball.  The main factor is if the dads do that AND the son is elite athletically.

Obviously TIGER was.  But for every 1 Tiger there are 1,000,000 no names.  You have to have the elite athletic ability to carry you to the next level.

And while I think JH is really good for his age, and a nice kid, I just don't see the athleticism in him that makes him the next super star.  I saw wayyyyy, as in not even close, way more athleticism in Manny at the same age than I do JH.  Gunnar as well.

 

I hope I am wrong.  But he reminds me more and more of an AI cyborg that was trained to do something much more than the average kid.  And that gave him and advantage growing up.  I don't see 'special'.

[OnlyOneOriole]

41 minutes ago, e16bball said:

Tiger Woods, of course, standing as an excellent example of a guy who was precociously skilled at a sport at a very young age (because his dad made him play) but never quite got there as a pro.

There’s some merit to what you’re referencing here. I would absolutely buy that his lifelong exposure to baseball is a significant factor in his success at a young age. But I think that type of thing is far more applicable when evaluating youth or high school, maybe college level players. At lower levels and younger ages, I suspect extreme advantages in experience, practice time, and hands-on coaching can absolutely give a less talented kid a leg up.

However, I think there’s a ceiling for how far a ho-hum kid can go on the back of force-fed baseball obsession — and I’m pretty sure that ceiling is a lot lower than “excellent hitter at AAA at age 20.“ I think you have to have the goods to reach that level, no matter how much baseball your daddy exposed you to as a kid.

Ceiling-wise, as I’ve said, I do think he’s probably lower than some of these absolute tool demons like Gunnar and Witt and Acuna. I would not trade Gunnar for him, for example. But lots of these guys I’ve compared him to as 2Bs (Cano, Utley, Altuve, Pedroia, Kinsler) were not super tooled-up guys, and they’re all among the 25-50 most valuable players of the last 25 years or so. I don’t know that you have to be a Greek god to be a perennial All-Star type player, at least at that particular position.
 

BTW I would agree.  I would not trade GH for JH.  Not even close. 

[OnlyOneOriole]

39 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

Or the Williams sisters, but I doubt he'd mention girls.

 

The Williams sisters got destroyed by the 700th ranked men's tennis players in the world.  DESTROYED.  They have no chance. 

 

Please do not compare men's and women's sports.  I played tennis my entire life, including at a Big 10 school, and the difference between men and women in sports is not EVEN in the same universe.  I would have to downsize my game 50% just so I could hit with them on a somewhat even basis. 

 

But of course you like to make statements that are twilight zone stuff. 

[Can_of_corn]

Just now, OnlyOneOriole said:

The Williams sisters got destroyed by the 700th ranked men's tennis players in the world.  DESTROYED.  They have no chance. 

 

Please do not compare men's and women's sports.  I played tennis my entire life, including at a Big 10 school, and the difference between men and women in sports is not EVEN in the same universe.  I would have to downsize my game 50% just so I could hit with them on a somewhat even basis. 

 

But of course you like to make statements that are twilight zone stuff. 

Somehow I had a feeling you would discount the accomplishments of a female athlete.

Of course at no point did I begin to suggest they could compete against males. 

That has nothing to do with how they were raised with a singular purpose to dominate in a single sport.

[OnlyOneOriole]

27 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

That makes me feel better about things

So you can post things about me like "Please stop talking about you.  No one gives a f*** about anything to do with your life, your bowling ball, your wife or anything else you try to pat yourself on the back about.  Your life is meaningless to the rest of us.".

 

And you said how dumb I am. 

When I hadn't mentioned ANY of that in the post that you were responding to. Nothing.    I was talking about ORIOLES. 

But I can't reply to any of that?  I never get personal until I am got personal with.

You went there.

I will tell you what....sports guy.  Post your pic.  Any pic. I will post mine....and I have...it is right in my avi. Because I know exactly what you look like.

My guess is that you never will.   And we all know why.