Jackson Holliday 2024

[Moose Milligan]

3 hours ago, Il BuonO said:

Mantle

That’s right. 

[sportsfan8703]

We’re at the point where it’s almost July. We’re in dog fight with the Yankees to avoid the WC series. Are we committed to Urias, and Mateo, defensively to where we’re passed the point to take our lumps with Holliday, and Mayo, overall?

Holliday defensively is an easier sell, because we could afford to take our lumps with his offense. Mayo’s errors would be back breakers and we put such a premium on defense. 

I could see Mayo come up for a series and DH if we’re facing LH SP. I would not put that passed Elias to match up with him considering we may want to groom Mayo for the role for a postseason game. 

[DrinkinWithFermi]

11 hours ago, OnlyOneOriole said:

I am a good evaluator.    From sports to horses to stocks to many things. 

It's kind of hard to take your "evaluations" seriously when you don't understand how OBP works.

[Frobby]

13 hours ago, Sports Guy said:

Gunnar made his ML debut at age 21. Holliday is ahead of him offensively at age 19 and age 20.

Don’t forget, there was no minor league baseball in Gunnar’s age 19 season.  He’s also 7+ months younger relative to his draft class compared to Holliday.  Even so, Holliday got further at age 19 than Gunnar did at age 20.   

The whole comparison is kind of pointless though.   Gunnar has accelerated like a rocket ship over the last three years, to MiL player of the year to rookie of the year to now a serious MVP candidate as of the halfway point of his second full year in the majors.  That’s a really rare trajectory, and it would be unfair to expect a similar progression from Holliday.  He could end up being a great player and still not have a trajectory like that. 

For me, I think a little humility is required in assessing Holliday.  He’s an excellent prospect.  That doesn’t mean he’ll be an excellent major league player.   Hopefully he will be, but we’ll just have to see how things unfold.  Every player’s progress is different; some greatly exceed their expectations, some meet them, some don’t.   It will be years before we know where Holliday falls in that hierarchy.

[Safelykept]

2 hours ago, sportsfan8703 said:

We’re at the point where it’s almost July. We’re in dog fight with the Yankees to avoid the WC series. Are we committed to Urias, and Mateo, defensively to where we’re passed the point to take our lumps with Holliday, and Mayo, overall?

Holliday defensively is an easier sell, because we could afford to take our lumps with his offense. Mayo’s errors would be back breakers and we put such a premium on defense. 

I could see Mayo come up for a series and DH if we’re facing LH SP. I would not put that passed Elias to match up with him considering we may want to groom Mayo for the role for a postseason game. 

They need to get Mayo up here and get some ABs something north of a series, If they make the post season they will get an extra bat maybe 2 considering Adley not be DHing, Mayo could be our RH DH, but we need to take a serious look, defensive lumps or not.

[Il BuonO]

1 hour ago, Safelykept said:

They need to get Mayo up here and get some ABs something north of a series, If they make the post season they will get an extra bat maybe 2 considering Adley not be DHing, Mayo could be our RH DH, but we need to take a serious look, defensive lumps or not.

If he's not at DH where do you play him? Westburg has to be in the lineup. O'Hearn? He seems to be the popular OH whipping boy, but he's not sitting vs RHP. And RM is better at 1B AND can hit. I want Mayo's bat, but the choices aren't great. He has to improve his defense. Is that happening? Is he still a work in progress at 3B? Is he improving at 1B? Where is he projected to be more suitable? Has HE gotten any looks in the OF? Castellanos came up at 3B and now plays regularly for Philly in RF. I wonder if his bat is attractive enough on it's own to attract the right return for the Orioles to ship him off. 

[Brooks The Great]

4 hours ago, sportsfan8703 said:

We’re at the point where it’s almost July. We’re in dog fight with the Yankees to avoid the WC series. Are we committed to Urias, and Mateo, defensively to where we’re passed the point to take our lumps with Holliday, and Mayo, overall?

Holliday defensively is an easier sell, because we could afford to take our lumps with his offense. Mayo’s errors would be back breakers and we put such a premium on defense. 

I could see Mayo come up for a series and DH if we’re facing LH SP. I would not put that passed Elias to match up with him considering we may want to groom Mayo for the role for a postseason game. 

Mayo's too good of a bat not to play every day. 

Holliday's not a good defender at both 2B and SS, but he got to play every day in his first stint in the majors. I've said several times before in other threads that this organization doesn't actually value defense (as evidenced by Odor, Frazier, Hicks, McKenna - who was touted as a good defender but was actually awful - O'Hearn when he plays in the OF), but the front office should start valuing elite offense and offensive upside more than it has (Kjerstad, Norby, and Stowers this season, Ortiz, Westburg, and Cowser last season).

Obviously Mayo isn't the #1 prospect in baseball, but he's an elite prospect. He has better AAA offensive numbers than Gunnar Henderson did. Mayo needs to be given a chance to play every day as well, and very soon.

[emmett16]

4 hours ago, sportsfan8703 said:

We’re at the point where it’s almost July. We’re in dog fight with the Yankees to avoid the WC series. Are we committed to Urias, and Mateo, defensively to where we’re passed the point to take our lumps with Holliday, and Mayo, overall?

Holliday defensively is an easier sell, because we could afford to take our lumps with his offense. Mayo’s errors would be back breakers and we put such a premium on defense. 

I could see Mayo come up for a series and DH if we’re facing LH SP. I would not put that passed Elias to match up with him considering we may want to groom Mayo for the role for a postseason game. 

You are aware that Holliday is not playing any defense currently?  And won't be for at least a few more weeks.  

[Roy Firestone]

15 hours ago, Moose Milligan said:

Mike Trout was bad at 19.  Yount was bad at 18, 19, 20.  George Brett hit .125 at age 20 in 41 plate appearances.  Brooks Robinson was bad from 18-21.  Mays struggled in his first 30-50 at bats at age 20.  Adrian Beltre wasn't good at 19.  Bench was bad at 19.  Ripken hit .128 at age 20 in '81.  

There are others I'm forgetting.  Yeah, he looked bad.  Not every player that turned out to be an all-time great flashed at that age, that's just not true.  Plenty had a rough start and figured it out.

That's not to say that Holliday will figure it out.  It's not to say that he won't.  But if you're hoisting up examples of 20 year olds that have come up and flashed right away and saying that there's something wrong with Holliday because he didn't...there are just as many examples of other 20 year olds that didn't play well right away.  

This is an excellent comment.And completely true...and balanced..

[Roy Firestone]

15 minutes ago, Brooks The Great said:

Mayo's too good of a bat not to play every day. 

Holliday's not a good defender at both 2B and SS, but he got to play every day in his first stint in the majors. I've said several times before in other threads that this organization doesn't actually value defense (as evidenced by Odor, Frazier, Hicks, McKenna - who was touted as a good defender but was actually awful - O'Hearn when he plays in the OF), but the front office should start valuing elite offense and offensive upside more than it has (Kjerstad, Norby, and Stowers this season, Ortiz, Westburg, and Cowser last season).

Obviously Mayo isn't the #1 prospect in baseball, but he's an elite prospect. He has better AAA offensive numbers than Gunnar Henderson did. Mayo needs to be given a chance to play every day as well, and very soon.

This is true .But theres an other thing too..If given a chance to play every day, (even as a DH) it will give management a clearer idea of what we have  and what we can deal at the deadline...LET COBY PLAY. His fielding % in the minors is .950....not stellar, but not horrible either..I think he would bring more than he gives away..

[Flash- bd]

8 minutes ago, Roy Firestone said:

This is true .But theres an other thing too..If given a chance to play every day, (even as a DH) it will give management a clearer idea of what we have  and what we can deal at the deadline...LET COBY PLAY. His fielding % in the minors is .950....not stellar, but not horrible either..I think he would bring more than he gives away..

I'd be shopping Mountcastle, as he might have some value (more so than O'Hearn, surely?). I'm pretty confident a Mayo / Kjerstad platoon can match Mountcastle's offensive output, and between O'Hearn and Mayo at 1st defensively there shouldn't be much drop off. 

[survivedc]

8 minutes ago, Flash- bd said:

I'd be shopping Mountcastle, as he might have some value (more so than O'Hearn, surely?). I'm pretty confident a Mayo / Kjerstad platoon can match Mountcastle's offensive output, and between O'Hearn and Mayo at 1st defensively there shouldn't be much drop off. 

You want to remove the starting 1B (who is easily on his way to a career best year) from the lineup and replace him with two rookies in a pennant chase year?

[interloper]

2 minutes ago, survivedc said:

You want to remove the starting 1B (who is easily on his way to a career best year) from the lineup and replace him with two rookies in a pennant chase year?

If it means not giving up Mayo and getting a decent pitcher, I'd consider it. Mounty has been good this year, but it's more impactful that we've lost a bunch of pitchers. I think it would be a net positive to trade Mounty+ for either a very good reliever or a solid SP. 

[G54377]

Alex Bregman had a similar start to his career at age 22.

 

2-38 with zero XBH.

[Moose Milligan]

45 minutes ago, Roy Firestone said:

This is an excellent comment.And completely true...and balanced..

Thank ya, sir.

I'm confident that Holliday will come back and be a great player for us moving forward.