Bullpen 2024

[eddie83]

5 minutes ago, dystopia said:

The O’s had the 5th best bullpen by ERA in 2023. We had a good ‘pen last year. The problem this year is a lack of depth. 

The difference so far is Kimbrel instead of Bautista. On Thursday this wasn’t a huge topic. 

[Sports Guy]

6 minutes ago, eddie83 said:

Yes, because pitchers like Bradish are readily available.

90% of the bullpen issues right now is about Kimbrel. Is he healthy? What’s going on. 
 

Webb, Tate and Cano have been fine. So have Akin and Coulombe. It’s not like this club has lost a bunch of games because the set up guys are awful.  
 

The lack of depth at AAA is on Elias. That said strong late game arms don’t grow on trees. He also thought Wells would be an option. 

WTF?  No one is talking about replacing Bradish and his talent . It’s about getting better in the pen. Bradish’s injury impacted that somewhat but not totally.  
 

You are using a bs excuse for them not to improve things. They had plenty of opportunity to address an obvious need and concern and failed to do so.  

[eddie83]

37 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:

I think he might be cocky with his ability to turn guys around.  

You're right, every contender wants to add elite bullpen pieces.  He should have done it this offseason.  

Look at the Yankees. For years they had big name guys like Chapman and Britton, not now. 
 

The whole sport is about reclamation projects. The big market Dodgers closer is former Oriole Evan Phillips. There are not a bunch of proven, veteran relief arms who are healthy anymore. 

[sportsfan8703]

5 minutes ago, eddie83 said:

The difference so far is Kimbrel instead of Bautista. On Thursday this wasn’t a huge topic. 

Bautista was also cleaning up a lot of Cano's messes in the 2nd half of last year.  Don't forget that last March/April Bryan Baker went 14.1 IP 1.88 ERA 19k 6 BB.  

We're always going to rely on the pen a lot at the beginning of the year until the starters get stretched out.  That's happening.  This was to be expected.  We have options now.  Means, Suarez, Wells, and Perez.  

[Moose Milligan]

2 minutes ago, eddie83 said:

Look at the Yankees. For years they had big name guys like Chapman and Britton, not now. 
 

The whole sport is about reclamation projects. The big market Dodgers closer is former Oriole Evan Phillips. There are not a bunch of proven, veteran relief arms who are healthy anymore. 

I kinda see where you're coming from, but we can agree to disagree.

[Uli2001]

35 minutes ago, sportsfan8703 said:

In the next 7-10 days we could add Means, Suarez, Perez, and Wells to this pen.  That's a big boost.  Ramirez and Baumann definitely go.  We replace single inning relievers with multi inning ones.  This isn't fantasy baseball.  Trades aren't happening in April.  Lets be really happy that we have internal options.  

The issue is, will the cavalry arrive in time? Because these last two blown games at home against a bad team are never coming back and the NYY are coming to town.

[eddie83]

2 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

WTF?  No one is talking about replacing Bradish and his talent . It’s about getting better in the pen. Bradish’s injury impacted that somewhat but not totally.  
 

You are using a bs excuse for them not to improve things. They had plenty of opportunity to address an obvious need and concern and failed to do so.  

I’m not using an excuse. You brought his name up. The closer stinks right now.

Did you complain about the Kimbrel signing? Have the middle relief arms blown a bunch of games? 

They currently have a closer issue and a lack of depth at AAA. The lack of AAA depth is on Elias. 
 

I have no idea if Means and Bradish stay healthy but that said the SP is in real good shape right now. This team should not be as reliant on the bullpen has they have been in the past. 
 

Burnes 

GRod

Bradish

Kremer

Means 

 

Kimbrel ?

Cano 

Coulombe 

Webb

Akin 

Tate

Suarez 

Irvin

Perez replaces one arm when healthy. Ramirez and Baumann will be gone soon.  

[Frobby]

9 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

The bullpen, when healthy, is a good pen but it’s not good enough especially in the highest of high leverage situations against the best teams.  
 

People saying the pen has done a good job so far is all well and good but it’s also pretty irrelevant and the sample size of it is pretty small.

You have mentioned that the pen wasn’t great last year and we won 101 games.  That is another irrelevant point imo. Last year was last year and this year is this year.

 

I would have said our pen was a little thin going into the year.  Kimbrel’s a downgrade from Felix, Hall is gone, and Cano and Coulombe sort of caught lightning in a bottle last year and may not be as good.  At the same time, you never know who will unexpectedly step up, as someone usually seems to do.  Adding Suarez and someone else from the rotation will help.  So, we’ll see.   

[Bemorewins]

30 minutes ago, sportsfan8703 said:

I'll never argue against spending FA money.  It's not my money.  I want us to win at all costs.  However, we don't know what the deal was with JA.  We don't know what the deal is with Rubenstein.  Maybe Elias wanted to leave himself some budget to improve the team at the deadline.  I was banging the table for a guy like Adam Ottavino or David Roberston, but the truth is any reliever we would've signed would be worn down like the rest of the A squad of the pen.

There's no magical solution walking through that door.  Our recipe for winning needs to change.  The starters need to start going deeper into games.  Maybe Suarez and Means will be big boosts for the middle innings.  Fingers crossed.  

There are some things that we know about Angelos and Rubenstein that are vastly different. 

Hopefully those things lead to a change in terms of how the ball club is run and the approach to adding talent beyond the draft and the waiver wire.

[Sports Guy]

2 minutes ago, eddie83 said:

I’m not using an excuse. You brought his name up. The closer stinks right now.

Did you complain about the Kimbrel signing? Have the middle relief arms blown a bunch of games? 

They currently have a closer issue and a lack of depth at AAA. The lack of AAA depth is on Elias. 
 

I have no idea if Means and Bradish stay healthy but that said the SP is in real good shape right now. This team should not be as reliant on the bullpen has they have been in the past. 
 

Burnes 

GRod

Bradish

Kremer

Means 

 

Kimbrel ?

Cano 

Coulombe 

Webb

Akin 

Tate

Suarez 

Irvin

Perez replaces one arm when healthy. Ramirez and Baumann will be gone soon.  

Loved and wanted the Kimbrel signing and don’t view him as a problem at all..and never have.  He’s not a problem.

[eddie83]

6 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:

I kinda see where you're coming from, but we can agree to disagree.

 

8 minutes ago, sportsfan8703 said:

Bautista was also cleaning up a lot of Cano's messes in the 2nd half of last year.  Don't forget that last March/April Bryan Baker went 14.1 IP 1.88 ERA 19k 6 BB.  

We're always going to rely on the pen a lot at the beginning of the year until the starters get stretched out.  That's happening.  This was to be expected.  We have options now.  Means, Suarez, Wells, and Perez.  

Look this is not the 12-16 Orioles pen. My point is it’s mainly about the closer right now. 
 

The key to the Orioles season is the SP. It’s not complicated. This team should catch the ball and score runs. 

[Sports Guy]

2 minutes ago, Frobby said:

I would have said our pen was a little thin going into the year.  Kimbrel’s a downgrade from Felix, Hall is gone, and Cano and Coulombe sort of caught lightning in a bottle last year and may not be as good.  At the same time, you never know who will unexpectedly step up, as someone usually seems to do.  Adding Suarez and someone else from the rotation will help.  So, we’ll see.   

That’s the problem. Hoping for guys to unexpectedly step up.  Consistently trying to rely on guys to “come out of nowhere” isn’t the way to build the pen.

[eddie83]

Just now, Sports Guy said:

Loved and wanted the Kimbrel signing and don’t view him as a problem at all..and never have.  He’s not a problem.

If he isn’t a problem then the pen will be fine. Do I want to add another arm? Of course. 
 

The two worst arms in the pen are about to be gone. If Kimbrel winds up being fine then the pen will be fine. Certainly want another arm for the playoff push and obviously playoffs. 

[Bemorewins]

17 minutes ago, eddie83 said:

The difference so far is Kimbrel instead of Bautista. On Thursday this wasn’t a huge topic. 

It was bound to be though given the usage volume that Bautista was expected and able to handle compared to what Kimbrel can handle.

The rest of the pen is simply not strong enough to handle a “lighter” workload from the closer. 

Before Bautista landed on the IL last season (and missed the final month), he had 9 appearances where he got more than 3 outs. And that includes 5 appearances where he got 6 outs. And doesn’t even speak to the frequency with which he was used.

Those frequent high leverage innings have to be covered from somewhere/somebody.

[eddie83]

13 minutes ago, sportsfan8703 said:

Bautista was also cleaning up a lot of Cano's messes in the 2nd half of last year.  Don't forget that last March/April Bryan Baker went 14.1 IP 1.88 ERA 19k 6 BB.  

We're always going to rely on the pen a lot at the beginning of the year until the starters get stretched out.  That's happening.  This was to be expected.  We have options now.  Means, Suarez, Wells, and Perez.  

Last year when Grod had that bad playoff start in Game 2 I recall Webb coming in and people bringing it up. He didn’t pitch well. 
 

In general I don’t think there are as many proven pen arms as there were 8-10 years ago. The pitching depth is so thin in the sport. If felt like the Orioles 5th arm in the pen years ago was reliable.