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All of the sudden...


NewMarketSean

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Really, why not?

He's been one of our better prospects despite his setbacks for some time now. He's got upside, Trembley likes him, he's having a good spring. I wouldn't totally call him a lock, but I'd say he's got a really good shot.

Now don't get me wrong, I'm not a big Hayden Penn fan...I wasn't all that impressed when I saw him a few years ago...but I think he's got a great chance to make it.

Honestly, I think Bergesen has a better chance. Seems to me that Penn is destined for a long relief role because it's becoming more apparent he can't go more than 2 times through an order.

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Honestly, I think Bergesen has a better chance. Seems to me that Penn is destined for a long relief role because it's becoming more apparent he can't go more than 2 times through an order.

Ditto this. Despite the wrath I just received from Drungo and NMS, I have yet to see any proof that Penn can get out major league hitters sucessfully enough to go past four innings. His minor league track record the past few seasons doesn't bode well that he can.

I mean, just look at how much better Liz and Olson did in comparison and we all saw how they struggled at the major league level. To expect Penn to do better is folly. It ain't gonna happen. Penn should be in the pen to have any chance at all of sticking around.

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Ditto this. Despite the wrath I just received from Drungo and NMS, I have yet to see any proof that Penn can get out major league hitters sucessfully enough to go past four innings. His minor league track record the past few seasons doesn't bode well that he can. I mean, just look at how much better Liz and Olson did in comparison and we all saw how they struggled at the major league level. To expect Penn to do better is folly. It ain't gonna happen.

Well considering that he hasn't pitched in the majors since 2006 you don't really have much proof to go on.

Penn's minor league BB/K ratio is good.

OldFan, someone could come in here and say that Penn is destined to fail because he's too short...and you'd agree despite not knowing that Penn is 6'3.

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Yes, there is an attrition rate for pitching "prospects," but you are taking it over board. A quality ML starter is anyone who can pitch 1-5 in the rotation..

Sorry, but I think you are taking this to the opposite extreme. Saying that 'a quality ML starter is anyone who can pitch 1-5 in the rotation' is oversimplification to the nth degree. Just because a pitcher CAN pitch in a rotation, doesn't mean he SHOULD pitch in a rotation. By your definition, DCab (8-10, 5.65, 1.61 WHIP), Radhames Liz (6-6, 6.72, 1.78 WHIP), Garrett Olson (9-10, 6.65, 1.78) are quality ML starters. And that's ludicrous.

A quality ML starter is someone who can pitch effectively in the 1-5 slots in the rotation. Of which we have one. Jeremy Guthrie. And we also have a lousy track record over the past decade-plus of developing (or, with the exception of Guthrie) signing anyone who fits that definition.

...But we also have Bergesen, Berken, Spoone, Erbe, Britton, Gleason, etc in the wings that could prove to be quality major leaguers. We have enough quantity that we have to be able to find some quality out of it...

And I'm sure someone made this argument four years ago and ticked off Penn, Loewen, Liz, Cabrera, Olson as the 'quality' waiting in the wings...and look how well they all turned out. The last crop of 'big' pitching prospects produced exactly squat in the terms of quality major league starters. And likely you'll find this true with MANY organizations. Look at the Yankees...three years ago it was Phil Hughes, Ian Kennedy, and Joba. One for three.

I think if we can get ONE of the current crop of minor league prospects to pan out as a quality ML pitcher (and by that I mean someone who can get guys out on a consistent basis, and not be a simple spot filler), well frankly, I'd be happy because it's something we haven't done. Anything more than that would be gravy on the cake.

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Ditto this. Despite the wrath I just received from Drungo and NMS, I have yet to see any proof that Penn can get out major league hitters sucessfully enough to go past four innings. His minor league track record the past few seasons doesn't bode well that he can.

I mean, just look at how much better Liz and Olson did in comparison and we all saw how they struggled at the major league level. To expect Penn to do better is folly. It ain't gonna happen. Penn should be in the pen to have any chance at all of sticking around.

I'm in favor of giving Penn a shot, which the team is clearly doing.

But I have to say that this post makes a lot of good points, and that there are plenty of reasons that have nothing to do with character to be skeptical that Penn can be even a replacement level starter this year. Three years ago he looked like a terrific prospect, but his performance at AAA last year was inferior to that of Olson, Liz and Pauley, and obviously his health track record is not good. The hope is that he was just shaking off the rust last year, and that he'll be back to his old self this year.

If Penn looks good in extended outings in camp, then he should definitely make the opening day rotation. So there's a spot waiting for him--but he still needs to step up and earn it.

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Given the circumstances this team is facing right now, Hayden Penn is slated to be our #3 starter. Yet OldFan wants to put him into the BP. :laughlol:

Pathetic on both ends... Penn should be in the back of the rotation. If the O's don't add a vet who is capable of eating innings, they are gonna be in trouble come mid-season if not earlier.

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I don't think anybody can know what to expect from Penn, its all just a guess on a guess.

He's got as much or more talent than anybody in the system outside of the big 3 (and maybe not even outside of them). But, he's been pretty damn bad the last two years in the minors. His numbers when he was younger were incredibly impressive.

The question is whether it was his injuries that were the main cause of his problems in the minors the last two years, or if he's lost the ability that he had when he was 19 and 20 and 21.

There is no denying that based on his numbers from ages 18-21 that he was a fantastic prospect. There is also no denying that if all you have to look at are his numbers the last two years, that he isn't a prospect at all.

So if you think its mostly injuries that have held him back, and that if fully healthy he can get back to where he used to be in terms of stuff and command, he'll probably be a very good MLB pitcher. Or if you think he's lost that ability, no amount of good health will make him a viable rotation candidate.

Nobody is "right" when it comes to Penn, because there is simply no way of knowing what the truth is regarding what has happened to him the last two years. We just have to see how he does this year. Let's hope he can still have that great stuff and command and poise he showed as a younger player.

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It wasn't good last year. His K/BB was 1.86 compared to 3.15 in 2006. That was mainly due to his K/9 dropping from 8.7 in 06 to 5.9 last year.

True, but still his career minor league stats are 8.02 k/9 and 2.96 bb/9. That walk rate is a bit too high, but it's still a good ratio.

Like I said before, I'm not getting my hopes up with him either. But lets not forget he was 20 and 21 when he had brief stints with us in the majors. It's not like he didn't have room to grow.

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Per Roch:

Brian Matusz had an easy inning, throwing five of eight pitches for strikes and getting back to the dugout. The ball didn't leave the infield.

Matusz threw a curveball that was so nasty, it has players chirping behind him. Pitching coach Rick Kranitz just shook his head.

Matusz is starting to show that he's ahead of Tillman and Arrieta. I wonder how long it will take for him to pass them on the depth charts.

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