Saturday, May 4 in Cincinnati: John Means returns to the mound

[LA2]

36 minutes ago, Malike said:

Stay safe out there F-Face, they might drug you and take a kidney.

Or like my friend once said to me in a similar situation that I wisely declined, I cd have woken up with my bat glued to my belly.

[spiritof66]

2 minutes ago, OriolesMagic83 said:

MLB rule: can't carry more than 13 pitchers.

I forgot that. Thanks. What I really had in mind was something like the Rays' use of openers. This is not a conventional staff, and I think the results will be better if the pitchers are used in an unconventional way that is designed according to what's on hand, rather than trying to squeeze guys into conventional roles like Hyde did tonight with Kimbrel. 

[baltfan]

17 minutes ago, Bemorewins said:

Whether he’s 35, 25, or 45; you cannot ask the other members of the pen to pitch more in order to protect him. You will end up wearing out your effective relievers overworking them trying to protect Kimbrel.

What are you talking about?.  We are talking bout maybe cutting his innings by maybe 15 over the course of the year.  That isn’t much to make up.  The Rays routinely do this. 

[LA2]

49 minutes ago, OriolesMagic83 said:

Buck was always resting different guys in his bullpen.  Missing certain fans off by "not playing for every win" but bullpen was never overextended.

To be fair, he also had Jim Johnson and Zach Britton at their peaks as closers and a bewildering variety of arm angles and speeds to set them up in O'Day, Strop, Givens et al.

[spiritof66]

8 minutes ago, Bemorewins said:

For right now IL him. Bring up another arm that has some actual use. Add Suarez to the mix at the back end that includes Cano, Coulombe, Webb, (and for some reason) Perez.

You can’t keep asking the rest of the guys to rescue him.

I believe, based on what I saw last night, that Kimbrel can be very effective if he doesn't pitch on back-to-back days.  If that's right, then that's how you use him. Maybe he can go multiple innings if he gets the rest. You can't put him on the IL if he's not injured, and even if you can do it you can't just leave him there indefinitely.

I believe Kimbrel is an asset. An overpaid and limited asset, but an asset nonetheless. You figure out what you can get from him and, to paraphrase Earl, use him in a way in the way that makes him most likely to succeed rather than expose him to likely failure.

[Bemorewins]

1 minute ago, baltfan said:

What are you talking about?.  We are talking bout maybe cutting his innings by maybe 15 over the course of the year.  That isn’t much to make up.  The Rays routinely do this. 

Um … I’m talking about a guy who is a liability at the back of the pen. A guy who was on the verge of blowing his 4th save in 12 chances. 

I’m talking about that guy not being good enough to be relied upon throughout the season. I know that we are stuck with him for now. But the first thing that I would try is to IL him.

This team is too good to try to protect and aging reliever, so that he can get saves to move up the all time list. He is the weak spot on the team that we will need to sure up/replace, not manage throughout the season.

We cannot afford to rely upon him once we get into the postseason. He could cost us a chance at a championship.

This is what I’m talking about.

[Bemorewins]

1 minute ago, spiritof66 said:

I believe, based on what I saw last night, that Kimbrel can be very effective if he doesn't pitch on back-to-back days.  If that's right, then that's how you use him. Maybe he can go multiple innings if he gets the rest. You can't put him on the IL if he's not injured, and even if you can do it you can't just leave him there indefinitely.

I believe Kimbrel is an asset. An overpaid and limited asset, but an asset nonetheless. You figure out what you can get from him and, to paraphrase Earl, use him in a way in the way that makes him most likely to succeed rather than expose him to likely failure.

We’re going to have to manage him until we can replace him.

There is no way you can trust him in postseason games once our season is on the line.

[justD]

50 minutes ago, OriolesMagic83 said:

Using him in 1/2 the games is how he got overworked.  Working him back to back right off injury or muscle strain whatever you call it is stupid.

This was the second time Hyde got burned by Kimbrel not being straight with him about how he felt. Last time it was after a mound visit, this time I bet he was not feeling 100% before the game and didn’t say so. Hyde won’t be able to trust Kimbrel’s own assessment of how ready he is on a given night, from here on out.

Should make things interesting. 

[spiritof66]

3 minutes ago, Bemorewins said:

We’re going to have to manage him until we can replace him.

There is no way you can trust him in postseason games once our season is on the line.

He's on the team, and he's going to pitch unless he proves he can't get guys out or he's injured and goes on the IL.

He's gone a long way toward proving he can't get guys out if he's used on consecutive days, but he'll get more chances. He also looks like he can get guys out if he gets tie off between appearances, and he'll get more chances to show that. Maybe, if he's rested he can be used for more than three outs or even multiple innings. I would give him a chance to do that. When Elias and Hyde see what he can and can't do, they'll have to define a role for him. I don't think he's going away unless he's injured or can't get batters out under any circumstances.

 

[Uli2001]

1 hour ago, OnlyOneOriole said:

Kimbrel is fine.  Just use him every 3 days or so.  No back to backs.

 

Put the players in the best situations to be successful.

 

CK with rest?  Good

 

CK back to back?  No good.

Problem is he's going to start to pout if he's not getting the save opportunities. He's obsessed with the all-time save list. Getting Kimbrel may have looked good at the time but it was a bad decision by Elias. It was uncharacteristic and bad. He is no longer an every-day closer, he's expensive, and he will probably create clubhouse problems if he's demoted.