Things are about to change - Bullpen usage

[SteveA]

44 minutes ago, Frobby said:

I agree with the premise that the busier schedule will make it harder for Hyde to ride certain guys in his bullpen the way he has.   Whether he actually will adjust remains to be seen.   

There are 54 pitchers in MLB who have made 19+ appearances (1.8 per team) and the Orioles have five of them: Webb, Coulombe and Cano all have 20, and Kimbrel and Akin have 19.   They’re all pitching slightly less than one inning per appearance.  Perez, recently activated, also averages less than one inning per appearance.  Only Baumann and Suarez throw more than an inning per appearance.  

The O’s rank 4th in IP per start, so we’d better hope that continues.  

 

I noted in the game thread yesterday that Hyde let two different relievers who were pitching well go more than 1.0 innings, which is out of character for him.   I was happy to see that.   So maybe that was the beginning of the change in philosophy that will be needed.   And it was a close game.   Some of the longest outings by relievers have typically come in blowouts, like Suarez on Sunday.

[SteveA]

36 minutes ago, sportsfan8703 said:

Is there anyway we can skirt around the only 8 reliever rule?  Even if that means possibly optioning Grayson/Kremer to AAA for 10 days in the future to get an extra arm up here?  

I don't think those guys would take too kindly to losing service time.

[SteveA]

1 hour ago, Roy Firestone said:

 

Why in the hell have they not considered Vespi or Povich or Mc Dermott from Norfolk?..im not saying they are lights out, Im saying they could help with another arm in the pen....especially Povich.

I'm sure we'll see Vespi.

Povich and McDermott are starting regularly.   They aren't going to come up and sit around in the pen waiting for days to pitch and not knowing when it's going to happen.

[wildcard]

19 minutes ago, SteveA said:

I don't think those guys would take too kindly to losing service time.

Akin is more likely to be optioned than GRod or Kremer IMO.    But I would hope that players understand that sometimes the reason for optioning players to keep them in the organization in a pennant race.   Players should know there will be injuries and that they will come back to the majors when that happens.

 No major league player wants to go to AAA but they also do know why moves are made.  If they don't I am sure management tells them.    

[SteveA]

4 minutes ago, wildcard said:

Akin is more likely to be optioned than GRod or Kremer IMO.    But I would hope that players understand that sometimes the reason for optioning players to keep them in the organization in a pennant race.   Players should know there will be injuries and that they will come back to the majors when that happens.

 No major league player wants to go to AAA but they also do know why moves are made.  If they don't I am sure management tells them.    

But I don't think that we will play those games with established starters like Grayson and Kremer, as long as they are pitching well.   They may use a minor injury/soreness as an excuse for load management as it appears they might have done with Grayson.   But an option?   Nope, I bet we don't do that.

The BuckDuqO's did that with Wei Yin Chen and there were some hard feelings as a result of that.   I don't think Elias & company will do that.

And I don't think Akin will be optioned if he is pitching well either.

You may see some unoptionable guys who are not among our core relievers DFA'd with the hopes of bringing them back if they clear waivers.   That's been a common Elias practice.

Edited May 16 by SteveA

[wildcard]

7 minutes ago, SteveA said:

But I don't think that we will play those games with established starters like Grayson and Kremer, as long as they are pitching well.   They may use a minor injury/soreness as an excuse for load management as it appears they might have done with Grayson.   But an option?   Nope, I bet we don't do that.

The BuckDuqO's did that with Wei Yin Chen and there were some hard feelings as a result of that.   I don't think Elias & company will do that.

And I don't think Akin will be optioned if he is pitching well either.

You may see some unoptionable guys who are not among our core relievers DFA'd with the hopes of bringing them back if they clear waivers.   That's been a common Elias practice.

I don't see Elias DFAing Webb, Perez or Baumann.   He is going to need them before the season is over.   He will want to keep them in the organization.   They will not make it through waivers.

The IL is something they will use.   But if push comes to shove I could see Akin being optioned the way Tate was.  

Something has to happen when GRod is activated.

[Dunk35]

I think we gotta start letting a SP go up to 100-105 pitches. I cant remember anyone hitting 100 so far this year. Hopefully if the starters can give us a little more length, we wont be so reliant on a worn out bullpen. 

[OriolesMagic83]

1 hour ago, Aristotelian said:

You could do a four man rotation. No way the O's are going for that though. We are more likely to see a six man rotation with seven bullpen like last year. I really hope we don't do that.

No way the O's stick with a 6 man rotation for any length of time.  Hyde struggles to manage the bullpen with 8 relievers.  7 relievers will be a disaster.  One option would be to DFA/trade Baumann or option Akin.  I feel like Akin has been a valuable member of the bullpen and even Baumann has been pitching well lately.  I'm not sure a shuttle of relievers would be any better.  8 relievers is plenty to get thru a stretch of consecutive games, you just can't throw 5 relievers every game.  Guys like Suarez, Baumann, and Akin should be throwing 2+ innings frequently.  Guys like Cano, Coulombe and Webb should be your 1 inning high leverage Guys.  You don't want to use them over 1 inning because you want to use them multiple times a week.  Kimbrel's work load has to be managed carefully.  No more back to backs or at least w/o plenty of rest before hand.  Perez you have to choose spots for him carefully.  Really need one more dominant back end arm probably replacing Perez.

[OriolesMagic83]

1 hour ago, Aristotelian said:

You could do a four man rotation. No way the O's are going for that though. We are more likely to see a six man rotation with seven bullpen like last year. I really hope we don't do that.

No way the O's stick with a 6 man rotation for any length of time.  Hyde struggles to manage the bullpen with 8 relievers.  7 relievers will be a disaster.  One option would be to DFA/trade Baumann or option Akin.  I feel like Akin has been a valuable member of the bullpen and even Baumann has been pitching well lately.  I'm not sure a shuttle of relievers would be any better.  8 relievers is plenty to get thru a stretch of consecutive games, you just can't throw 5 relievers every game.  Guys like Suarez, Baumann, and Akin should be throwing 2+ innings frequently.  Guys like Cano, Coulombe and Webb should be your 1 inning high leverage Guys.  You don't want to use them over 1 inning because you want to use them multiple times a week.  Kimbrel's work load has to be managed carefully.  No more back to backs or at least w/o plenty of rest before hand.  Perez you have to choose spots for him carefully.  Really need one more dominant back end arm probably replacing Perez.

[Just Regular]

2 hours ago, sportsfan8703 said:

Is there anyway we can skirt around the only 8 reliever rule?  Even if that means possibly optioning Grayson/Kremer to AAA for 10 days in the future to get an extra arm up here?  

Duquette and Buck would at the All-Star break though I believe they knew the sand was almost out of the hourglass and they didn't have to worry about upholding the organization as a desirable workplace for 5-10 of the world's greatest young ballplayers.

Knowing Elias likes to gather every day and hour of information, I still think the Kremer blister move might be in play - I believe he could backdate it to Kremer's last appearance.     Otherwise if Grayson's good, then actions will force some information to be revealed who out of John Means and Cole Irvin the Sigbot truly regards as a long reliever.

[Aristotelian]

2 minutes ago, OriolesMagic83 said:

No way the O's stick with a 6 man rotation for any length of time.  Hyde struggles to manage the bullpen with 8 relievers.  7 relievers will be a disaster.  One option would be to DFA/trade Baumann or option Akin.  I feel like Akin has been a valuable member of the bullpen and even Baumann has been pitching well lately.  I'm not sure a shuttle of relievers would be any better.  8 relievers is plenty to get thru a stretch of consecutive games, you just can't throw 5 relievers every game.  Guys like Suarez, Baumann, and Akin should be throwing 2+ innings frequently.  Guys like Cano, Coulombe and Webb should be your 1 inning high leverage Guys.  You don't want to use them over 1 inning because you want to use them multiple times a week.  Kimbrel's work load has to be managed carefully.  No more back to backs or at least w/o plenty of rest before hand.  Perez you have to choose spots for him carefully.  Really need one more dominant back end arm probably replacing Perez.

Didn't we use a six man rotation for most of the second half last year? I don't like it at all but I wouldn't say no way.

Hyde clearly disagrees on reliever usage. Akin is averaging under 1.0 and Baumann barely over 1. I am not expecting him to change.

[OriolesMagic83]

2 minutes ago, Aristotelian said:

Didn't we use a six man rotation for most of the second half last year? I don't like it at all but I wouldn't say no way.

Hyde clearly disagrees on reliever usage. Akin is averaging under 1.0 and Baumann barely over 1. I am not expecting him to change.

The O's had more optionable relievers last year.  I believe Tate, Perez, Akin and Baumann had options.  If you check box scores, O's are frequently using 4 or 5 relievers and opponents are using 2 or 3.  I don't know if there is a stress factor for the bullpen but the O's bullpen would have to be at the top if there was.  Multiple relievers, 5, among relievers with most appearances is concerning.

[Aristotelian]

9 minutes ago, OriolesMagic83 said:

The O's had more optionable relievers last year.  I believe Tate, Perez, Akin and Baumann had options.  If you check box scores, O's are frequently using 4 or 5 relievers and opponents are using 2 or 3.  I don't know if there is a stress factor for the bullpen but the O's bullpen would have to be at the top if there was.  Multiple relievers, 5, among relievers with most appearances is concerning.

Hyde clearly believes more frequent short appearances is the way to keep guys fresh. Like it or not I expect him to continue with this system. Only difference, I don't think we will see any two inning saves like he would do with Felix. Going with five in the rotation instead of six will help keep pressure off the bullpen vs last year. When the bullpen was short I think that was where we got into trouble. He may need to option the last spot (currently Akin) or make use of the IL. 

[oriolediehard]

The MFY's swept the Twins with dominant pitching only allowing 1 run in the whole 3 game series.  They play the White Sox next while we play Seattle.  They may have a sizable lead on us for 1st place after the weekend.  Should I be content for a wild card?   I know it is early, but these early games do matter and also builds momentum.

[Orioles0615]

6 hours ago, sportsfan8703 said:

The addition of Suarez should help.  Also, what are we doing when Grayson comes back?  Irvin or Means to the pen?  We could always fire up the Norfolk shuttle, but only Cano is optionable.  Kimbrel, Suarez, Akin, Coloumbe, Perez, Baumann, and Webb, are out of options.  

The 8 reliever max rule is hurting us.  A 9th reliever would be much more valuable than Stowers on this roster.  

I think its more of building a bullpen with no option  guys is what really hurts us