The play that ended the game

[Malike]

9 minutes ago, RarityFlaherty said:

I don’t know how you can blame the player in that situation. The rule puts him in a situation where he’s likely out either way. He can go back to the bag and risk the interference, or he can wait and not return to the bag until after Gunnar passes but then he risks getting doubled up anyway. I’m really not sure what is expected of the runner in that situation. Feels like a lose-lose situation for the runner.

It's pretty easy, when the IF fly rule is called don't get 15 feet off the base. They clearly weren't advancing even if Gunnar let the ball fall. It's a stupid rule and I feel like it should only be called if it actually interferes with the catch, but the ump called it before Gunnar even got into position to camp under it. The player could see it was a pop up to SS, why even leave the bag?

[OsBeavs]

 

Sounds like the umps don't believe it was a judgment call. Contact = interference.

Crew chief Adrian Johnson said there is no discretion when a baserunner appears to make incidental contact with a fielder -- even if the play results in a defensive out.

"If he hinders the fielder in the attempt to field a batted ball, intent is not required and it's interference," Johnson said after Valentine made the game-ending call. "When you see the interference, you call it."

[Moose Milligan]

2 minutes ago, Malike said:

It's pretty easy, when the IF fly rule is called don't get 15 feet off the base. They clearly weren't advancing even if Gunnar let the ball fall. It's a stupid rule and I feel like it should only be called if it actually interferes with the catch, but the ump called it before Gunnar even got into position to camp under it. The player could see it was a pop up to SS, why even leave the bag?

Cause he already had a lead when the pitch was thrown.  

Now, was he lazy in getting back to the bag?  Yeah, probably.  But it's an infield fly, batter's already out.  I'm all for hustling all the time, but there's no reason for him to really speed back to the bag.  On top of that, he couldn't be sure where Gunnar was coming from to catch that pop-up. 

Vaughn probably had some idea of where Gunnar was before the pitch, but after seeing a sky high pop up to the infield...I dunno, I get it.  Infield fly, no reason to hustle back and certainly might lapse on where the SS is because...well, no need to really know where he is.  

[Aristotelian]

7 minutes ago, RarityFlaherty said:

Well, it’s not an automatic out if the umpire doesn’t call it that way. And how would the runner make that determination in the moment, especially when he doesn’t see where the fielder is? It feels like Vaughn was doing the right thing in that situation by going back to the bag, he just got unlucky. 

The umpire has the judgement call of whether it is interference or not. If it is interference, they do not have the discretion to ignore it just because it is a big play. 

Bottom line, it is the baserunner's responsibility to get out of the way and intent doesn't matter. The rule is clear on that.

[glenn__davis]

When I saw the replay on MASN I thought it was a really weak call.

Seeing another angle, he did cause Gunnar to have to go around him to get there.  Fully unintentional and I still don't like it being called there, but I think it was probably the correct call based on the rules.

[RarityFlaherty]

Just now, Aristotelian said:

The umpire has the judgement call of whether it is interference or not. If it is interference, they do not have the discretion to ignore it just because it is a big play. 

Bottom line, it is the baserunner's responsibility to get out of the way and intent doesn't matter. The rule is clear on that.

I get that, but what I don’t like is that the rule puts the runner into a lose-lose situation. In that situation, getting out of the way means not going back to the bag and risking being doubled up. 

[UMDTerrapins]

Terrible ending. They called the infield fly rule, so the hitter was out regardless of whether Henderson caught it. So to call interference on a play that was essentially already ruled dead makes no sense to me. If that’s the correct interpretation of the rule by the umpire crew, the rule needs fixing. If I was a Sox fan I’d already be depressed, but I’d be pissed and depressed. 

Edited May 24 by UMDTerrapins

[Aristotelian]

1 minute ago, RarityFlaherty said:

I get that, but what I don’t like is that the rule puts the runner into a lose-lose situation. In that situation, getting out of the way means not going back to the bag and risking being doubled up. 

Agreed, I would support making an exception for infield flys, but that is a problem with the rule, not the call. 

[RZNJ]

12 minutes ago, Malike said:

It's pretty easy, when the IF fly rule is called don't get 15 feet off the base. They clearly weren't advancing even if Gunnar let the ball fall. It's a stupid rule and I feel like it should only be called if it actually interferes with the catch, but the ump called it before Gunnar even got into position to camp under it. The player could see it was a pop up to SS, why even leave the bag?

Why leave the bag?  Because runners take leads before the batter swings.

[Moose Milligan]

1 minute ago, RZNJ said:

Why leave the bag?  Because runners take leads before the batter swings.

It's like @Malike doesn't watch baseball.  

[RZNJ]

Does anyone believe that game 7 of the WS and the runner is Ohtani that the call is even made?  And if it’s made I bet there’s a call from NY or wherever Manfred is to overturn it.

[Moose Milligan]

Just now, RZNJ said:

Does anyone believe that game 7 of the WS and the runner is Ohtani that the call is even made?  And if it’s made I bet there’s a call from NY or wherever Manfred is to overturn it.

No.

But it's late May and the runner was Andrew Vaughn of the White Sox.

[RZNJ]

2 minutes ago, RZNJ said:

Why leave the bag?  Because runners take leads before the batter swings.

It is an odd thing to say.   No runner is standing on the bag when the pitch is thrown.  As it is, he was barely off and only had a few steps back to the bag.

[Malike]

Just now, RZNJ said:

Why leave the bag?  Because runners take leads before the batter swings.

I get it, watch where the ball is hit and get back to the base. IF fly rule has been in effect forever, I've never seen a player make contact with a fielder in 45 years. It may have happened before, but nobody has ever seen it. You can read a popup off the bat while on 2B, the fielder is looking up in the air to make the catch, they can't move out of the way of the runner. It's a stupid rule, but to say that an IF fly rule called when a runner on 2B is a lose-lose situation isn't correct. It was a terrible call, I'm not defending it, what I said was that some people here for certain would have blamed the runner on base and not the ump.

[RZNJ]

1 minute ago, Moose Milligan said:

No.

But it's late May and the runner was Andrew Vaughn of the White Sox.

Exactly my point.  It’s a ticky tack call not made 100% of the time.  It’s like some umpires are known for calling balks.