Guthrie season splits

[Sports Guy]

You only posted it so you could argue your side of the Guts argument. It's obvious you have an ax to grind with the Guts supporters.

My side?

I posted his f'ing stats.

They are what they are.

[tywright]

Right...But do you think he can do that for next year and beyond?

I would think he can be around 4 for the next couple years just based on his stuff. You can't argue that his makeup is not representative of a 2/3 starter

[Sports Guy]

I would think he can be around 4 for the next couple years just based on his stuff. You can't argue that his makeup is representative of a 2/3 starter

So you think he is going to be a 2/3 starter in the AL for the forseeable future...correct?

[tywright]

My side?

I posted his f'ing stats.

They are what they are.

Yeah your side...the side where you argue all the time that Guts is a fluke and only a 4/5 potential starter. And the splits you posted are swayed by 2 bad starts in August and one in July right after the AS break. You've been waiting for him to have consecutive bad starts all year and finally when it happens you jump all over it. You're so reactionary it's not even funny

[tywright]

So you think he is going to be a 2/3 starter in the AL for the forseeable future...correct?

Sure, when he was drafted he was seen as a 2/3 starter and to do this day he still has the stuff to be a 2/3 starter. So I'm going to say YES, he will be a 2/3 starter for the next couple years. Loewen and Penn of course could pass him and Guts could move to the 4 spot, but that doesn't mean he can't be a 2/3 starter.

[Sports Guy]

Yeah your side...the side where you argue all the time that Guts is a fluke and only a 4/5 potential starter. And the splits you posted are swayed by 2 bad starts in August and one in July right after the AS break. You've been waiting for him to have consecutive bad starts all year and finally when it happens you jump all over it. You're so reactionary it's not even funny

Oh that's it, only 3 bad starts? That is only 38% of his starts in the last 2 months.

I will tell you what, let's throw those out. Let's only look at his great to ok starts and judge him off of that?

Give me a break. Your logic is piss poor.

Bottom line is this is almost breaking his starts completely in half.

One half is great, one half shows him being a shaky back of the rotation guy.

[Sports Guy]

Sure, when he was drafted he was seen as a 2/3 starter and to do this day he still has the stuff to be a 2/3 starter. So I'm going to say YES, he will be a 2/3 starter for the next couple years. Loewen and Penn of course could pass him and Guts could move to the 4 spot, but that doesn't mean he can't be a 2/3 starter.

Who cares about when he was drafted? That was a long time ago now.

Van Poppel was thought of to be the next Ryan....Maybe he still has a chance at that!?

[NewMarketSean]

I think SG is trying to draw some blood from a stone in this thread. Guthrie has had 15 QS in 18 starts. Yes, his last 2 have left a lot to be desired, but it's to be expected as he wears down. Has he pitched this much before? What are his career high's in IP, etc? So let's not bring out the whole "I told you so" argument yet.

Now, that isn't to say that Guthrie is still going to be the "missing link" whatever that means. But he still looks like a decent 2/3 starter at this point. Anyone who said he'd be more than that as he was pitching exceptionally well was setting themselves up for a letdown, as most die-hard O's fans here usually do.

Let's just see how he finishes the season and enjoy the ride. We can't expect him to be awesome in every start.

[Moose Milligan]

I think SG is trying to draw some blood from a stone in this thread. Guthrie has had 15 QS in 18 starts. Yes, his last 2 have left a lot to be desired, but it's to be expected as he wears down. Has he pitched this much before? What are his career high's in IP, etc? So let's not bring out the whole "I told you so" argument yet.

Now, that isn't to say that Guthrie is still going to be the "missing link" whatever that means. But he still looks like a decent 2/3 starter at this point. Anyone who said he'd be more than that as he was pitching exceptionally well was setting themselves up for a letdown, as most die-hard O's fans here usually do.

Let's just see how he finishes the season and enjoy the ride. We can't expect him to be awesome in every start.

Best post in this thread so far.

[tywright]

Oh that's it, only 3 bad starts? That is only 38% of his starts in the last 2 months.

I will tell you what, let's throw those out. Let's only look at his great to ok starts and judge him off of that?

Give me a break. Your logic is piss poor.

Bottom line is this is almost breaking his starts completely in half.

One half is great, one half shows him being a shaky back of the rotation guy.

Actually if you are using the 2 month time frame...here you go:

Since June 9th (2 months ago), he's had 3 bad starts out of 12 so thats 25%. In that time frame, he has a 3.58 ERA, 6.9 k/9, 2.4 k/bb, 1.4 hr/9

Here is the time range so you don't think I'm making this up:

http://www.baseballmusings.com/cgi-bin/PitcherInfo.py?StartDate=06%2F09%2F2007&EndDate=08%2F09%2F2007&GameType=all&PlayedFor=0&PlayedVs=0&Park=0&PlayerID=2072

So how about that "piss poor" logic

[tywright]

Who cares about when he was drafted? That was a long time ago now.

Van Poppel was thought of to be the next Ryan....Maybe he still has a chance at that!?

Haha, Van Poppel never had a 4 month stretch where was realizing his potential.

Keep it coming SG, I have more ways to make you look bad

[geschinger]

Sure, when he was drafted he was seen as a 2/3 starter and to do this day he still has the stuff to be a 2/3 starter. So I'm going to say YES, he will be a 2/3 starter for the next couple years. Loewen and Penn of course could pass him and Guts could move to the 4 spot, but that doesn't mean he can't be a 2/3 starter.

There is a big difference between being a #2 or #3 caliber starter and being the #2 or #3 in a particular rotation. A couple of years ago, Rodrigo Lopez was the Orioles #1 starter but noone would confuse him w/a legitimate ace.

Guthries stuff is good IMO but not overwhelming to the point where he's going to be able to perform at a high level with less than great command. The second ace or legitimate #2 talk on these boards was premature and most likely inaccurate. But that doesn't mean he's not going to be extremely valuable and a key contributor. I think he's going to settle in and be a reliable #3 of quality #4 type of starter for this team over the next few years.

[tywright]

There is a big difference between being a #2 or #3 caliber starter and being the #2 or #3 in a particular rotation. A couple of years ago, Rodrigo Lopez was the Orioles #1 starter but noone would confuse him w/a legitimate ace.

Guthries stuff is good IMO but not overwhelming to the point where he's going to be able to perform at a high level with less than great command. The second ace or legitimate #2 talk on these boards was premature and most likely inaccurate. But that doesn't mean he's not going to be extremely valuable and a key contributor. I think he's going to settle in and be a reliable #3 of quality #4 type of starter for this team over the next few years.

I disagree, he has been pitching like a 2/3 starter all year (other than the last 2 starts) and he has the "stuff" to be a 2/3 starter. He might eventually be the 4th best starter on the staff, but that doesn't mean he's not a 2/3 caliber starter.

[Mackus]

There is a big difference between being a #2 or #3 caliber starter and being the #2 or #3 in a particular rotation. A couple of years ago, Rodrigo Lopez was the Orioles #1 starter but noone would confuse him w/a legitimate ace.

Guthries stuff is good IMO but not overwhelming to the point where he's going to be able to perform at a high level with less than great command. The second ace or legitimate #2 talk on these boards was premature and most likely inaccurate. But that doesn't mean he's not going to be extremely valuable and a key contributor. I think he's going to settle in and be a reliable #3 of quality #4 type of starter for this team over the next few years.

I agree with this. I don't think he'll be a top of the rotation guy, but I don't think he'll be a fringe rotation guy either. I think he'll settle in real nice right in the middle.

That's good for a guy making several million dollars a year. The fact that he won't be making more than $350k until 2010 makes that incredibly valuable.

[Sports Guy]

Haha, Van Poppel never had a 4 month stretch where was realizing his potential.

Keep it coming SG, I have more ways to make you look bad

How are you making me look bad?

I posted his stats for May/June vs July/Aug...You can't argue them.

You can do your typical whining and say what you are saying but you can't deny what i posted.