Rafael Palmeiro - questions for the old guys

[24fps]

1 minute ago, blid said:

Everyone assumes that he was a steroid user but he does still deny it. Also, he was confident enough to go testify in Congress, and all his other tests were supposedly negative. I think there’s at least a world where he got screwed somehow.

There's also a documented world where Raffy was an enthusiastic promoter of Viagra, so it's safe to assume that the screwing was a two-way proposition.

[Say O!]

Baseball reference has some great stuff for these type of debates in the “HOF Statistics” section on the individual player pages.

Here’s the section for Murray (and Palmeiro’s pasted further below).  I’ve also included similarity scores as well, since Murray and Palmeiro are one another’s closest comps.  Statistically speaking, these guys are essentially dead-heat looking at bWAR, 7-yr peak WAR, and JAWS.  Note that both of these guys 7yr peaks probably would be ~2-3 WAR higher since Murray’s 1980 season was strike interrupted and same with Palmeiro’s 1994.  To me any delta between the two comes down to preference and as O’s fan, Murray’s 7yr peak came with the O’s, while Palmeiro’s straddled TEX/Os tenure.

Palmeiro’s

[Safelykept]

9 hours ago, Roll Tide said:

You have zero proof of this and are just deflecting stats you can’t debate.

Maybe not but what you could do is go to Baseball Reference and look at their offensive stats. Not looking at Games played ABs or PAs, but starting at runs scored and going across to OPS+, Frank led the League in one of those categories 18 times, Raffy? 3, which is a lot but its not what frank was doing.

[GoldGlove21]

On 6/8/2024 at 8:46 AM, kidrock said:

Hey O’s hangout faithful, a few questions for the older cats on here.  I was pretty young during his era:

1. Was Palmeiro thought of as one of the best players in the league year in, year out.  His numbers looking back are incredible, but I don’t recall him being a star.  Maybe he just had a more quiet personality, or it was the fact that so many guys were hitting home runs.  Just wondering what the perception was at the time.

2. Seeing his age 35-39 seasons is just crazy when you think about the current day aging curves of these players.  Did you like baseball better when players had much longer career arcs or do you prefer today’s young man’s game.  Just looking at some of the seasons for older ball players back in the steroid era seem mind boggling relative to today.

3.  Share a story about him that the young guys wouldn’t have been aware of.

Thanks

My Aunt through a previous marriage was in her mid 40's and had a huge crush on Palmeiro. She went to a signing he was attending. Walked up in a whispered and  said "Mr. Palmeiro I am such a big fan. Can you please sign my balk as Raffy "My little pinata Palmeiro?" He just looked at her for a few seconds and responded back "No" before signing it regularly. 

 

[Roll Tide]

8 hours ago, Moose Milligan said:

Are you taking the offensive environments into account here?

Yes …… I understand PEDS ….the juiced ball era etc. I was specifically using the statistical approach. 

[Roll Tide]

6 hours ago, Safelykept said:

Maybe not but what you could do is go to Baseball Reference and look at their offensive stats. Not looking at Games played ABs or PAs, but starting at runs scored and going across to OPS+, Frank led the League in one of those categories 18 times, Raffy? 3, which is a lot but its not what frank was doing.

I did compare stats …go back and read the other posts they both played around 18 seasons. There was a 2 WAR difference in Thomas’ favor. He also walked about 300 more times. But, Palmeiro had 600 more hits, 100+ more RBI, and 48 more home runs.

They were both great players … But, they were pretty comparable. 

[Roll Tide]

7 hours ago, Say O! said:

Baseball reference has some great stuff for these type of debates in the “HOF Statistics” section on the individual player pages.

Here’s the section for Murray (and Palmeiro’s pasted further below).  I’ve also included similarity scores as well, since Murray and Palmeiro are one another’s closest comps.  Statistically speaking, these guys are essentially dead-heat looking at bWAR, 7-yr peak WAR, and JAWS.  Note that both of these guys 7yr peaks probably would be ~2-3 WAR higher since Murray’s 1980 season was strike interrupted and same with Palmeiro’s 1994.  To me any delta between the two comes down to preference and as O’s fan, Murray’s 7yr peak came with the O’s, while Palmeiro’s straddled TEX/Os tenure.

Palmeiro’s

Nice post …. Those of us alive remember the details of their tenures here. Eddie was booed at the end of his tenure here. Heavily criticized for making $2 million per year. I remember he was criticized some other stuff as well to do with his play but don’t want to elaborate the details since I honestly don’t remember. Palmeiro left to go back to Texas but the biggest reason imo is the Orioles didn’t want to meet his demands similar to Nelson Cruz’s departure.

[sportsfan8703]

For anyone that doesn’t know about Palmeiro… go back and watch YouTube vids of those Will Clark/Raffy Palmeiro NCAA teams at Miss St. Raffy and Clark were both beasts and didn’t need steroids. 

Palmeiro just did the same thing everyone else in the league was doing back then. Pitchers too. He cheated and wasn’t Cal with the fans, but he still was a HOF without roids. GG too. One of the best swings of all time. 

Edited June 10 by sportsfan8703