Bring up Mayo already!!

[eddie83]

3 minutes ago, RZNJ said:

When’s the last time Urias played 2B?  We have Mateo and Westburg for 2B.    Mayo’s no lock.  Urias is a lock.  To be a .700 OPS guy give or take.  Mayo might be worse.  Might be the same.  Might be better.  Urias won’t be better.  You’re living in the past.  Urias was a plus 3B in 2022.  No matter how many times Kevin Brown calls him a gold glover he’s average at best.  At 3B, from  6 OAA in 2022, -7 in 2023, and a -2 so far this year.  And he’s so slow on the bases.  He’s not terrible by any means so hopefully we can get something.  Someone has to go for the future and the future is now.   
 

Austin Hays is becoming a liability in LF.  He’s a -4 DRS and a -2 OAA.   Once you see Cowser out there and then compare it to Hays it’s like night and day.    He had 3 homers. 2 in one game and another when we were already winning by 20 runs.   He got some pinch hits.  Great.  He’s no threat in the lineup, brings minimal power, no speed, and below average defense.  Let’s get Norby up to play some LF/2B/DH.

The time is now for Mayo and Norby.  The time has passed for Urias and Hays.

 

I don’t get your argument. Mayo plays 3rd. You want Urias gone. The Orioles have a .983 FLD % there which is second in the AL. The league average is .962. Westburg has been excellent at 3rd this year and Urias has been good there. Urias rates well with other metrics.  Urias has been playing more second because Mateo has slowed down. What in the world makes you think Mayo can be a good glove at 3rd? There is zero info he can be average. 

 

It’s amusing to me that Mayo needs to be here. Just like Holliday? The assumptions that these kids no matter how talented are a lock to produce right away is incredible. He is a lock to have his OPS be over .700? How well does he have to hit to make up for his glove? 
 

Hays has an OPS of .949 since his return. With Kjerstad here now and I’m assuming not riding the pine he will not be getting more time. He is a platoon plus type player on this team. You point out his glove while ignoring that Norby’s glove is much worse. Cowser is superior in LF but that’s not relevant. 
 

This team was a season high 24 games over .500 4 days ago. Now the sky is falling. Why play a kid at a postion he clearly isny good at just to force at bats because the team has slumped hitting for 3 games? Why move on from Hays who has been productive for someone with a limited at best glove and with no idea how well he would hit? These are moves you make on a 70 win team, not a 100 one. 

[eddie83]

15 minutes ago, RZNJ said:

Just because you lead the league in runs in the first half it doesn’t mean you shouldn’t try to get better.   Standing pat doesn’t guarantee you’re going to lead in runs in the 2nd half.  And stop overrating Urias defense.

I’m not overrating his glove. You are ignoring Mayo’s glove. You are assuming he hits right away. 

[LGOrioles]

7 minutes ago, SteveA said:

Why do we need a spark?   We've scored 53 runs in the last 8 games.... that's 6.6 runs per game?    The offense is on quite a roll, if you ask me.   And we've faced Zach Wheeler, Nestor Cortes, Luis Gil, Gerrit Cole, Tanner Bibee, and Framber Valdez in that stretch!

I realize that my post may seem silly to you.   But it's also completely factual.   The idea that our offense is some kind of disaster and that we must bring someone up to spark us is completely ridiculous.   We are the HIGHEST SCORING TEAM IN MLB.   The idea that a 3 game hitting slump is anything but the normal ebb and tide of random chance, and that somehow it means more than the fact that we have averaged 5.19 runs per game in 78 games is just utter nonsense.

There are a lot of good reasons to bring Mayo up, most notably that he has put up great AAA numbers.   But doing it because our offense is bad and needs a spark is not a reason.

 

You’re right that it is all part of the normal ebb and flow of the season, but that number can be kind of deceiving too. They have scored 69 runs in their last 13 games (going back to the Braves series). 66 of those were scored without the ghost runner (first 9 innings of the game). 36% (24) of those runs scored in the last 13 games came in the last NYY game or the 8th inning against Houston. They’ve had a tough schedule but those 10 innings heavily skew their recent numbers and I think that is why it kind of feels worse than the overall numbers show. They had one great game and one amazing inning, other than that, they have not been very good the last 2 weeks. 

[RZNJ]

1 minute ago, eddie83 said:

I don’t get your argument. Mayo plays 3rd. You want Urias gone. The Orioles have a .983 FLD % there which is second in the AL. The league average is .962. Westburg has been excellent at 3rd this year and Urias has been good there. Urias rates well with other metrics.  Urias has been playing more second because Mateo has slowed down. What in the world makes you think Mayo can be a good glove at 3rd? There is zero info he can be average. 

 

It’s amusing to me that Mayo needs to be here. Just like Holliday? The assumptions that these kids no matter how talented are a lock to produce right away is incredible. He is a lock to have his OPS be over .700? How well does he have to hit to make up for his glove? 
 

Hays has an OPS of .949 since his return. With Kjerstad here now and I’m assuming not riding the pine he will not be getting more time. He is a platoon plus type player on this team. You point out his glove while ignoring that Norby’s glove is much worse. Cowser is superior in LF but that’s not relevant. 
 

This team was a season high 24 games over .500 4 days ago. Now the sky is falling. Why play a kid at a postion he clearly isny good at just to force at bats because the team has slumped hitting for 3 games? Why move on from Hays who has been productive for someone with a limited at best glove and with no idea how well he would hit? These are moves you make on a 70 win team, not a 100 one. 

With that logic, Mayo, Norby, and Holliday won’t play until Mateo and Urias hit free agency.   It’s June 24.  Long way to go.   Mayo might struggle.  He also might pull an Evan Carter.   He might make errors.  We’re playing for October, next season etc.  Just like Kjerstad, these guys are as ready as they’re ever going to be.  Please, spare me the Hays .967 OPS since he came back.  He can’t play everyday because he’s not that good and his defense is slipping.  You have no idea if Norby is a worse LF.  One thing for sure, he’s faster than Hays.  Well, who isn’t?  Oh, Urias.

You can play the panic card.  I’ll play the afraid to make changes card.   If you don’t think Mayo will be a better overall 3B than Urias then Mayo is either an atrocious 3B or highly overrated offensively.   It might get a little stormy but there’s a bucket of gold at the end of the rainbow.   With Urias, no storm, but a steady drizzle that never ends.   

[eddie83]

35 minutes ago, accinfo said:

He isn’t up because of his defense.  The people running this team value defense.  That is why they are running this team and not the posters here at the Hangout.  He will get his chance eventually.

This is the thing that gets me. At some point Holliday will play 2nd. This year I hope but soon. Westburg has already shown a quality glove on the dirt. Elias has said Mayo will play in the middle of the order. Elias said Mayo has been working out some in the OF. What evidence is there he is going to be playing 3rd base here? 
 

 

I love the kid and have high hopes. Maybe 2/3 years he takes over at 1B. Who knows. I don’t get this idea we need him now. 

[LookitsPuck]

Can he pitch?

[RZNJ]

10 minutes ago, eddie83 said:

I’m not overrating his glove. You are ignoring Mayo’s glove. You are assuming he hits right away. 

When did I assume he’ll hit right away.  I assume that he has a lot more upside offensively than Urias.  He might get to it he might not.  I know Urias won’t get to it because he doesn’t have it.

Mayo is going to make more errors than Urias.  That’s almost certain.  He has a better arm and he might get to more balls and make more plays.  Neither of us knows.  What I do know is that Tony thinks he can be average and most outsiders seem to think he can play an adequate 3B.   An adequate 3B or average 3B would be a nice way of describing Urias at 3B the last 1 1/2 years despite his fielding percentage.

[RZNJ]

8 minutes ago, eddie83 said:

This is the thing that gets me. At some point Holliday will play 2nd. This year I hope but soon. Westburg has already shown a quality glove on the dirt. Elias has said Mayo will play in the middle of the order. Elias said Mayo has been working out some in the OF. What evidence is there he is going to be playing 3rd base here? 
 

 

I love the kid and have high hopes. Maybe 2/3 years he takes over at 1B. Who knows. I don’t get this idea we need him now. 

So you’re against Kjerstad coming up too?   We know Kjerstad isn’t as good a LF as Cowser.   How could they  go for offense when we have scored the most runs in baseball.  Makes no sense.

Mayo keeps playing 3B at Norfolk.  He’s played ZERO RF.   There’s more evidence of him playing 3B than there is RF or 1B.   As for Holliday, why do some people worry.  It’s like if Mayo plays great at 3B and Westburg plays great at 2B, what about my Jackson!

Edited June 25 by RZNJ

[eddie83]

1 minute ago, RZNJ said:

With that logic, Mayo, Norby, and Holliday won’t play until Mateo and Urias hit free agency.   It’s June 24.  Long way to go.   Mayo might struggle.  He also might pull an Evan Carter.   He might make errors.  We’re playing for October, next season etc.  Just like Kjerstad, these guys are as ready as they’re ever going to be.  Please, spare me the Hays .967 OPS since he came back.  He can’t play everyday because he’s not that good and his defense is slipping.  You have no idea if Norby is a worse LF.  One thing for sure, he’s faster than Hays.  Well, who isn’t?  Oh, Urias.

You can play the panic card.  I’ll play the afraid to make changes card.   If you don’t think Mayo will be a better overall 3B than Urias then Mayo is either an atrocious 3B or highly overrated offensively.   It might get a little stormy but there’s a bucket of gold at the end of the rainbow.   With Urias, no storm, but a steady drizzle that never ends.   

If Norby has a good glove you don’t think his prospect status would be higher? Why aren’t teams clamoring for the kid? You are real down on Hays and you are entitled to your opinion but the guy was a starter in the ASG last year. 
 

Mayo is a bat first player with super upside. 
 

It is June 24 and a long way to go. Who knows about injuries. Why weaken your depth?

 

The team leads in the AL in runs scored. You talk about the kids ignoring the struggles of Holliday earlier in the year. Santander may be gone next year. Urias could be. I don’t care about next year. Their time will come. 

[eddie83]

2 minutes ago, RZNJ said:

So you’re against Kjerstad coming up too?   We know Kjerstad isn’t as good a LF as Cowser.   How could they  go for offense when we have scored the most runs in baseball.  Makes no sense.

I’m against him being up if he rides the pine. I’m assuming he plays. 
 

 

[eddie83]

7 minutes ago, RZNJ said:

When did I assume he’ll hit right away.  I assume that he has a lot more upside offensively than Urias.  He might get to it he might not.  I know Urias won’t get to it because he doesn’t have it.

Mayo is going to make more errors than Urias.  That’s almost certain.  He has a better arm and he might get to more balls and make more plays.  Neither of us knows.  What I do know is that Tony thinks he can be average and most outsiders seem to think he can play an adequate 3B.   An adequate 3B or average 3B would be a nice way of describing Urias at 3B the last 1 1/2 years despite his fielding percentage.

I don’t care if he can be average. He isn’t now. 
 

The kid has made 10 errors in 45 starts on the dirt. 

[accinfo]

3 minutes ago, RZNJ said:

So you’re against Kjerstad coming up too?   We know Kjerstad isn’t as good a LF as Cowser.   How could they  go for offense when we have scored the most runs in baseball.  Makes no sense.

I think the timing for Kjerstad coming up is understandable.  Cowser has struggled for a pretty long time and doesn’t have the track record of hitting in the past at the major league level like Hays and Mullins.  However they aren’t going to litter the whole lineup with Kjersted, Mayo, and Norby at the same time because they are all below average defensive players.  At least not right now.  You don’t solve a diminished pitching staff hit with injuries by making the defense around them significantly worse.  

[RZNJ]

2 minutes ago, eddie83 said:

If Norby has a good glove you don’t think his prospect status would be higher? Why aren’t teams clamoring for the kid? You are real down on Hays and you are entitled to your opinion but the guy was a starter in the ASG last year. 
 

Mayo is a bat first player with super upside. 
 

It is June 24 and a long way to go. Who knows about injuries. Why weaken your depth?

 

The team leads in the AL in runs scored. You talk about the kids ignoring the struggles of Holliday earlier in the year. Santander may be gone next year. Urias could be. I don’t care about next year. Their time will come. 

Are we talking about Norby at 2B or LF?   He’s not going to be playing everyday at either spot and probably hardly at all at 2B.   I honestly don’t know how he is in LF.  He looked fine the few times I’ve watched Norfolk games and Tony seems to agree.   He was always an “average at best” or “offensive 2B” but no one ever called him a liability there.

I don’t ignore the struggles of Holliday.  I also don’t ignore the improvements of Rutschman, Henderson, Westburg after an initial adjustment period.  Cowser seems to still be going through it.  If you want the best team come October you can stick with what you know with Urias and Hays.   I’d rather take my chances with Mayo and Norby.

As far as depth, I’ve got Westburg, Mateo, and Norby at 2B with Holliday at Norfolk.   At 3B I got Mayo and Westburg.   In LF I got Cowser, Kjerstad, Norby with Billy Cook at Norfolk.   Are worried about not having three 3B?

[RZNJ]

8 minutes ago, accinfo said:

I think the timing for Kjerstad coming up is understandable.  Cowser has struggled for a pretty long time and doesn’t have the track record of hitting in the past at the major league level like Hays and Mullins.  However they aren’t going to litter the whole lineup with Kjersted, Mayo, and Norby at the same time because they are all below average defensive players.  At least not right now.  You don’t solve a diminished pitching staff hit with injuries by making the defense around them significantly worse.  

Hays is not a plus LF.  Urias is not a plus 3B.   The biggest difference in defense is probably between Cowser and Kjerstad in LF.    You just talked about pitchers struggling and defense.  If that’s the case you don’t replace Cowser with Kjerstad in LF.

[RZNJ]

17 minutes ago, eddie83 said:

I don’t care if he can be average. He isn’t now. 
 

The kid has made 10 errors in 45 starts on the dirt. 

He’s made 7 at 3B in 37 games.  Not great.  Meanwhile you hope Holliday who’s made 10 errors in 38 games at 2B is up sometime this year.