In regards to guys like Pie and Penn....

[Pedro Cerrano]

It's because the board is reactionary in general (and I'm partially guilty).

A guy goes out and has a great game or start to his career (remember when Waters was Cy Young) and he's a sure thing.

A guy goes out and has a rough spring and suddenly he's garbage.

[JTrea81]

Penn has the chance to get better. On a team that needs as much talent as possible, why is it such a terrible idea to have the "problem" of a pitching-well Hayden Penn as we're trying to develop younger pitchers?

Because he's not pitching well and Trembley won't stick with him and the bullpen is going to pay the price.

And why are you so scared of the young guys that you are willing to bend forward over the table to pay for old guys who could easily decline or weren't much good in the first place?

Because the old guys have shown they can give quality innings and be average pitchers. There just aren't as many question marks with those guys.

This is the exact kind of team that can afford to take that chance.

You would think so, but with the younger pitchers coming up, it will be important to have a good bullpen behind them, so they won't have the Guthrie scenario of pitching well only to have the bullpen give up 3-4 runs behind them. If that happens, they might be pressured to pitch too perfect everytime out.

[JTrea81]

Please prove this.

Keeping Penn probably means going with 13 pitchers, which means a three man bench, which also means less rest for the position players and less options for Trembley to substitute in games.

I guess we could cut Baez to go with 12 pitchers, but he's pitched better than Penn and I think that would just be a waste considering he can be a dominant reliever given the right situation.

Besides, I just don't see the Orioles eating that salary when they are paying Gibbons still not to play for us.

[tvz1997]

I disagree with JTrea on a lot of the peripherals of this argument, but am with him on Eaton over Penn. Just didn't want to see him go it alone.

[JTrea81]

A guy goes out and has a rough spring and suddenly he's garbage.

Penn and Pie have each had a rough ML career and it's not just this spring. Both are simply following the trends that they have shown at the ML level.

There are better players to take their spots, so why wouldn't we want to replace them with better players?

Don't we want the team to succeed?

[Sports Guy]

Keeping Penn probably means going with 13 pitchers, which means a three man bench, which also means less rest for the position players and less options for Trembley to substitute in games.

I guess we could cut Baez to go with 12 pitchers, but he's pitched better than Penn and I think that would just be a waste considering he can be a dominant reliever given the right situation.

Besides, I just don't see the Orioles eating that salary when they are paying Gibbons still not to play for us.

What situation would that be? 2002?

[JTrea81]

What situation would that be? 2002?

Baez was our best reliever in 2007 with the bases empty other than Chris Ray.

[LookinUp]

I actually give JTrea a little credit here. If he truly thinks there's a 0% chance that Penn sticks, he shouldn't want him on the team. Considering that's exactly how I feel about Pauley, I get that part.

Heck, I actually agree that Eaton would be better in the rotation than Penn right now. I can't see Penn getting out of the 3rd or 4th inning most of the time.

I don't agree that Penn has 0 value though, so I really think he'd be well-placed in the bullpen for now.

[Mad Mark]

First, I'd like to request that whomever took McLovin's place as the tech guy provide me a "jumping the shark" smiley so I can reply to JTrea81's posts in future.

Second, I'd like to create a new unit of measure: the Cabrera.

Daniel Cabrera was given five full seasons by the Baltimore Orioles to find the baseball player within. It didn't happen here, so he was released. Therefore, a Cabrera is a five-season unit of measurement. One/fifth Cabrera is one season, and so on...

Hayden Penn and Felix Pie should--short of bursting into flames or sticking up a liquor store--be given (at minimum, perhaps) a one/fifth Cabrera to find the baseball player within. Since this season has semi-officially been declared as the waning moments of the great Lost Weekend of 1998-2009, I can't see what it's going to hurt.

I have just agreed with SG on something (sort of). Now I must disagree with his assessment of Dave Trembley (as I usually do) in order to keep things in balance.

Thank you for your support.

MM

[Moose Milligan]

Penn and Pie have each had a rough ML career and it's not just this spring. Both are simply following the trends that they have shown at the ML level.

There are better players to take their spots, so why wouldn't we want to replace them with better players?

Don't we want the team to succeed?

Dude, they've had extremely minimal amounts of major league experience.

I'm done...I'm done, I can't reply anymore, I just can't.

[Mad Mark]

Dude, they've had extremely minimal amounts of major league experience.

I'm done...I'm done, I can't reply anymore, I just can't.

Let's not forget that Penn has been jerked around by a pretty unusual set of circumstances. Really, how many guys get called up, then have to miss their first scheduled ML start of the season for an emergency appendectomy?

Pie just suffered from the Cubs' current "win-now" mentality. That's a more normal baseball problem to have.

[Mad Mark]

Let's see. Penn has shown trends in 58 ML IP. What would you call what Eaton has shown.

1. A combined 6+ ERA over the last 2 years.

2. Averaging 5 IP a start over the last 4 years

3. 45 homers in 267 IP over the last 2 years.

Could these be considered trends?

Can't be...trend doesn't rhyme with Eaton...with Penn, however...

And let's not forget, Penn has a girl's first name. He'll never cut it as a big league pitcher.

[JTrea81]

Let's see. Penn has shown trends in 58 ML IP. What would you call what Eaton has shown.

1. A combined 6+ ERA over the last 2 years.

2. Averaging 5 IP a start over the last 4 years

3. 45 homers in 267 IP over the last 2 years.

Could these be considered trends?

Well I think Eaton has already made the team. It's Baez's worth that we need to be comparing with Penn as after Penn's outing, the bullpen is probably the only place he will go.

And we also need to consider the value of that bench spot and Penn's worth to the team as a reliever as if Baez and Penn make the team we'll only have a three man bench.

[Sports Guy]

Baez was our best reliever in 2007 with the bases empty other than Chris Ray.

LOL....A thank you from those who work in the worthless stat department.

[dslats715]

I think b/c the overwhelming amount of posters are reactionary.

With a completely open mind I believe:

Pie-

We should give him a chance to blossom because he hasn't been given one yet in his career. However, all the reports/evidence of poor fielding is very concerning to me.

Penn-

We should give him a chance to start too because of his lack of opportunity (other than his rush job in 2005). He concerns me that he hasn't stepped up and TAKEN the job. Thats the kind of person I'd look for, and his amount of jinxes, bad luck, and lack of ability to secure a wide open position concerns me.