Why Pie now?

[bluedog]

.Potential that he has shown at all levels of the minors..usually at young ages for his league. His options are up...We can't send him down...In a year where we are going no where, we need to find out what he has.If he is so good, why did the Twins give up on David Ortiz?

And why did the Indians give up on Guthrie?

Or why did the Orioles give up on John Maine?

And while we are at it, why is he wanting to give Lou Montanez a shot - a guy the Cubs thought was so unlikely to ever amount to anything that they simply cut him - if we're using the Cubs ability to evaluate talent as a factor in whether or not Pie should be given a chance?

[Satyr3206]

Maybe or most likely Pie isn't going to be good, ever, but the only way to truly find out is to play the guy. Markakis looked horrible too when he first came up and only after the Orioles stuck with him did he begin to flourish. Why not give Pie the same chance? There is really nothing to lose with this joke of a starting rotation anyway.

Markakis was a very disciplined hitter even in his first year.

[MikeAD]

Maybe or most likely Pie isn't going to be good, ever, but the only way to truly find out is to play the guy. Markakis looked horrible too when he first came up and only after the Orioles stuck with him did he begin to flourish. Why not give Pie the same chance? There is really nothing to lose with this joke of a starting rotation anyway.

This is one of your best posts, spot on. Except I have more faith in the success part, you are still right.

[bluedog]

I watched Pie a few times last year because I get the Extra Innings package and I'm not impressed. He's fast and has a good arm. Unfortunately he has very little grasp of the strike zone and his swing is too long. My assessment is based on what I've seen.

As for why the Twins gave up on Ortiz I don't know.

They gave up on him because they thought he'd never hit for power.

The moral of that story is that giving up on young phenoms before they have a chance to prove whether or not they can fully develop their skills is just foolish.

[MikeAD]

Guthrie and Sherrill have a track record. The guys I mentioned don't. I'm not that against Pie, I'm against giving a guy a ML position simply because he has potential. If he's that good why did the Cubs give up on him?

Ok, but you have to let Pie get a track record, man. On your logic nobody ever makes it to the majors, unless they have some stellar spring training. But in reality, we can all name off plenty of players who have an awesome spring, or even an awesome April, and end up at the bottom of their team statistically.

[Satyr3206]

Ok, but you have to let Pie get a track record, man. On your logic nobody ever makes it to the majors, unless they have some stellar spring training. But in reality, we can all name off plenty of players who have an awesome spring, or even an awesome April, and end up at the bottom of their team statistically.

Pie has had 2 shots in the ML that weren't Spring Training.

[bluedog]

Markakis was a very disciplined hitter even in his first year.

Markakis had a .597 OPS and was striking out one in every 6 at bats through mid-June. Not sure how disciplined he was, but he was playing far below replacement level for a corner outfielder at that point.

Good thing we let him play through it, as he posted an .850 OPS the rest of the way.

All I'm saying is lets give Pie that same chance.

[TheBee]

Markakis had a .597 OPS and was striking out one in every 6 at bats through mid-June. Not sure how disciplined he was, but he was playing far below replacement level for a corner outfielder at that point.

Good thing we let him play through it, as he posted an .850 OPS the rest of the way.

All I'm saying is lets give Pie that same chance.

Yep

Markakis 224 ab's 2 homers 20 rbi's 8 2b's 260 Ave 1st half of 2006

Pie 260 ab's 3 homers 30 rbi's 11 2b's 223 Ave so far in MLB

Just give the kid a chance - barely 24. Read what VA TECH said about what he's seen over the past few days.

[bluedog]

Pie has had 2 shots in the ML that weren't Spring Training.

Yes, clearly every player who's had 300-ish at bats in the majors before their 23rd birthday and not reached their full potential is a complete bust.

[RShack]

Maybe or most likely Pie isn't going to be good, ever, but the only way to truly find out is to play the guy. Markakis looked horrible too when he first came up and only after the Orioles stuck with him did he begin to flourish. Why not give Pie the same chance? There is really nothing to lose with this joke of a starting rotation anyway.

While I agree with your basic point, I don't agree with the bolded part. I think Nick looked like he knew what he was doing from the first. He just didn't know what to do when they jammed him. That was the whole problem, everything else was fine. From Day-1, he had a better eye for the strike zone than the umps did. After watching him play part-time for a few weeks, I wanted them to just put him in RF and leave him there, and I was annoyed because it was months before they did that. I have not yet had opportunity to see Pie play, and I am looking forward to seeing him on TV. In the meantime, if they are confident in his ability, I agree that putting him out and leaving him there for a few months is the right thing to do.

[Satyr3206]

Markakis had a .597 OPS and was striking out one in every 6 at bats through mid-June. Not sure how disciplined he was, but he was playing far below replacement level for a corner outfielder at that point.

Good thing we let him play through it, as he posted an .850 OPS the rest of the way.

All I'm saying is lets give Pie that same chance.

My point was that Markakis has always had a good grasp of the strike zone and usually gets a good pitch to hit. Pie on the other hand, doesn't, and unless he's related to Vlad, he's going to have a hard time hitting ML pitching consistently.

[Palmoripken]

Markakis had a .597 OPS and was striking out one in every 6 at bats through mid-June. Not sure how disciplined he was, but he was playing far below replacement level for a corner outfielder at that point.

Good thing we let him play through it, as he posted an .850 OPS the rest of the way.

All I'm saying is lets give Pie that same chance.

Agree 100%. And yeah Markakis was struggling and got really hot as summer began. Jones too got better as the year went along last year. I think we should give Pie a chance. If he works out, we have a future LFer, and if he doesn't there is always Reimold who will have AAA experience against more ML ready pitchers there. As for Montanez I think at best he's a 4th OFer at this point. I like the guy but he's also 27 and while his stats were great last year in AA I am not going to get all excited for a 26 year old who did that. If he were 20 I'd be very excited. As for wanting to compete now. We're not going to as someone said even if we had Ryan Braun as our LFer. We should just give the guy a chance and if he works all will be good and if he doesn't well we have a backup plan. While I liked Olson I don't think he was too much to give up for a LFer with still a lot of potential. Remember Adam Jones before he became a regular also struggled as a part timer before he became a full time player with the Orioles.

[Big Mac]

Pie has had 2 shots in the ML that weren't Spring Training.

He has 260 sporadic ML at-bats.

He was never given consistent AB's at the ML level. You're conveniently leaving that part out.

[Satyr3206]

Yes, clearly every player who's had 300-ish at bats in the majors before their 23rd birthday and not reached their full potential is a complete bust.

I didn't say he was a bust. I am simply stating my opinion about a hitter. Strike zone discipline is critical to most hitters and I think that's what will affect Pie the most. Like some guys on here post about pitching mechanics, I can spot a hitter a mile away.

[RShack]

Markakis had a .597 OPS and was striking out one in every 6 at bats through mid-June. Not sure how disciplined he was, but he was playing far below replacement level for a corner outfielder at that point.

He was very disciplined. The whole problem was that it took the league about 10 minutes to figure out that they could jam him in on the hands and Nick didn't know what to do. So, that's what everybody did. It took Crow a few months to fix it. He had him place his hands differently, and in BP Crow had a guy behind a protective screen pitching to him from something like 30' away instead of 60, and they just jammed him again and again until Nick trained his reflexes properly. After they did that enough, everything was fine.