This Just In - Cuts - Pauley clears waivers

[JTrea81]

Wow...So, you totally ignore years and hundreds and hundreds of at bats showing that these 2, in the minors, at similar ages, are the same player? But hey, a few hundred SCATTERED at bats in the majors proves everything.

Unreal.

You are getting as bad as Old Fan in terms of what you pay attention to and how you try to discuss things.

And you are ignoring on the field ML performance because the Orioles finally acquired one of your mancrushes.

I remember how you weren't exactly MacPhail's biggest fan until Pie was suddenly acquired...

[Mackus]

How is batting .230+ with a .320+ SLG compared to .320+ and a .500+ SLG the same? Jones did that when he was 22 and Pie is 24. Pie is nowhere near Jones in terms of ability and upside and the sooner you grasp that, then maybe you'll see where the other side is coming from. Pie isn't even at Corey Patterson's level yet.

Jones was handed the CF job in ST and he went out and earned it even though it was already his. Pie has done nothing to show he deserves the LF job out of ST over Reimold and Montanez other than what he did in AAA in 2007.

I posted this when Pie was acquired:

Pie:

MLB Career (Ages 22-23)

287 PA, 260 AB, .223/.284/.325/..609, 3 HR, 25 K%, 7.3 BB%

AAA

Age 23: 368 PA, 335 AB, .287/.336/.466/.802, 10 HR, 14.7 K%, 6.3 BB%

Age 22: 250 PA, 229 AB, .362/.410/.563/.973, 9 HR, 16 K%, 7.6 BB%

Age 21: 623 PA, 559 AB, .283/.341/.451/.792, 15 HR, 20.2 K%, 7.4 BB%

Jones:

MLB Career pre 2008 (Ages 20-21)

147 PA, 139 AB, .230/.267/.374/.641, 3 HR, 29.3 K%, 4.1 BB%

AAA:

Age 21: 469 PA, 420 AB, .314/.382/.586/.968, 25 HR, 22.6 K%, 7.7 BB%

Age 20: 416 PA, 380 AB, .287/.345/.484/.829, 16 HR, 18.8 K%, 6.7 BB%

Patterson:

MLB 2000-2001 (age 20-21, before first full season)

192 PA, 173 AB, .225/.259/.335/.594, 6 HR, 29.7% K%, 4.7% BB%

AAA:

Age 21: 396 PA, 367 AB, .253/.308/.387/.695, 7 HR, 16.4% K%, 7.3% BB%

http://www.forum.orioleshangout.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1542912&postcount=51

[tywright]

I don't believe either knows how to do that. Or that either changes things between innings. Some innings they get clobbered, others they get by. Neither have much talent at this point.

I'm not going to disagree, but I'll tend to believe that Eaton has shown some experience in scuffling through IP and giving his BP a rest throughout his career. I think that's what we all need to expect from him. Penn on the other hand is going to kill our BP if he makes the rotation.

[Sports Guy]

I know you don't care, but did you know that Eaton had a 4.79 ERA in early July last year before getting hurt?

I think what AM really wants out of Eaton is 10+ starts to get us through May. Then he'll re-evaluate things.

You are right, I don't care.

I also know he did that in the NL.

Let me say this...If Eaton throws 50 innings, he could have a 4.75 ERA or a 7 ERA. In a small sample size, one can get very lucky or unlucky.

That being said, he still doesn't deserve to be on the team.

[blid]

Montanez's weakness was his defense as at the plate he was solid. He basically fixed that weakness this offseason, and now he's blocked by a player that has more weaknesses even though he has more talent.

I like Montanez. But the fact that this is a lost year, that Pie has no options, and that he, as you just said right here, has more talent... isn't that the reason why you keep him up? I don't see the debate really. Maybe the team can trade Scott and then bring up Lou then.

[Big Mac]

And you are ignoring on the field ML performance because the Orioles finally acquired one of your mancrushes.

I remember how you weren't exactly MacPhail's biggest fan until Pie was suddenly acquired...

So you are going to put more stock into Montanez's 112 ML AB's rather than his thousands of MiL AB's.

If Montanez really deserves the spot more, that will show before too long. The only way we can have both in the organization is if Pie makes it over Montanez. You seem unable to understand this.

You're constant whining and crying about every little thing is really getting old.

[JTrea81]

I posted this when Pie was acquired:

Pie:

MLB Career (Ages 22-23)

287 PA, 260 AB, .223/.284/.325/..609, 3 HR, 25 K%, 7.3 BB%

AAA

Age 23: 368 PA, 335 AB, .287/.336/.466/.802, 10 HR, 14.7 K%, 6.3 BB%

Age 22: 250 PA, 229 AB, .362/.410/.563/.973, 9 HR, 16 K%, 7.6 BB%

Age 21: 623 PA, 559 AB, .283/.341/.451/.792, 15 HR, 20.2 K%, 7.4 BB%

Jones:

MLB Career pre 2008 (Ages 20-21)

147 PA, 139 AB, .230/.267/.374/.641, 3 HR, 29.3 K%, 4.1 BB%

AAA:

Age 21: 469 PA, 420 AB, .314/.382/.586/.968, 25 HR, 22.6 K%, 7.7 BB%

Age 20: 416 PA, 380 AB, .287/.345/.484/.829, 16 HR, 18.8 K%, 6.7 BB%

Patterson:

MLB 2000-2001 (age 20-21, before first full season)

192 PA, 173 AB, .225/.259/.335/.594, 6 HR, 29.7% K%, 4.7% BB%

AAA:

Age 21: 396 PA, 367 AB, .253/.308/.387/.695, 7 HR, 16.4% K%, 7.3% BB%

http://www.forum.orioleshangout.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1542912&postcount=51

Patterson Ages 23-24:

Year Ag Tm  Lg  G   AB    R    H   2B 3B  HR  RBI  SB CS  BB  SO   BA   OBP   SLG *OPS+  TB   SH  SF IBB HBP GDP +--------------+---+----+----+----+---+--+---+----+---+--+---+---+-----+-----+-----+----+----+---+---+---+---+---+2003 23 CHC NL  83  329   49   98  17  7  13   55  16  5  15  77  .298  .329  .511  114  168   0   2   2   1   52004 24 CHC NL 157  631   91  168  33  6  24   72  32  9  45 168  .266  .320  .452   95  285   5   1   7   5   7

[tywright]

You are right, I don't care.

I also know he did that in the NL.

Let me say this...If Eaton throws 50 innings, he could have a 4.75 ERA or a 7 ERA. In a small sample size, one can get very lucky or unlucky.

That being said, he still doesn't deserve to be on the team.

No one deserves to be in the rotation except Guts and Uehara...so who really cares. All I care about is getting through May without killing the pen and not having to call up one of the Big 3.

I wouldn't be surprised to see Bergesen and Hernandez in the rotation come July.

[Sports Guy]

And you are ignoring on the field ML performance because the Orioles finally acquired one of your mancrushes.

LOl..What a stupid statement...I am not paying attention to his ML performance because I have an ounce of intelligence when it comes to such things...I see his upside...I see the age he was at when he was brought up and I see how sporadic his at bats were over the course of a few seasons. Its nothing to draw any kind of conclusion from.

I remember how you weren't exactly MacPhail's biggest fan until Pie was suddenly acquired...

Yea I remember that...But it wasn't just Pie..it was HIll and the markakis extension.

It was his ability to pounce on this good oppurtunities even though he had to give up very little to accomplish them.

It was good vision on his part.

It is a larger deal than you can possibiliy comprehend.

[Big Mac]

I will say this about Montanez, how he performs in AAA will tell us a lot about what kind of player we have.

He could be a late bloomer, or he could have just had one flukey season at AA, we really don't know right now.

However, if he goes down to Norfolk and performs anything like he did last season, I may start to believe we have more than just a fourth outfielder on our hands.

If Reimold and Montanez both are successful down in Norfolk, we could have a very favorable situation on our hands, regardless of how Pie performs.

But the fact is besides the options, Pie has had success at AAA, a level that neither Reimold or Montanez has ever played at.

[TyCobb]

I will say this about Montanez, how he performs in AAA will tell us a lot about what kind of player we have.

He could be a late bloomer, or he could have just had one flukey season at AA, we really don't know right now.

However, if he goes down to Norfolk and performs anything like he did last season, I may start to believe we have more than just a fourth outfielder on our hands.

If Reimold and Montanez both are successful down in Norfolk, we could have a very favorable situation on our hands, regardless of how Pie performs.

But the fact is besides the options, Pie has had success at AAA, a level that neither Reimold or Montanez has ever played at.

Yep. If Lou is the real deal we will know. I hope the organization doesn't have Pie in LF set in stone for most of the season.

[JTrea81]

But the fact is besides the options, Pie has had success at AAA, a level that neither Reimold or Montanez has ever played at.

Montanez played in the majors for a stint and had more offensive success than Pie in his two stints, and in the AL East to boot. Isn't that proof that he doesn't need AAA to show he's better?

I guess I can get Reimold, even though I think he's better than Montanez, but Lou skipped AAA and only had a problem defensively, which he's now improved.

He's out hit Pie at the ML level and in ST this year. What more do you want? I think Lou is probably asking the same question. If Pie had options, I bet he'd be in AAA to start the season with Montanez on the 25 roster instead.

[Boston Dave]

I will say this about Montanez, how he performs in AAA will tell us a lot about what kind of player we have.

He could be a late bloomer, or he could have just had one flukey season at AA, we really don't know right now.

However, if he goes down to Norfolk and performs anything like he did last season, I may start to believe we have more than just a fourth outfielder on our hands.

I doubt Lou is who you want for a 4th OFer. He may be here now if that were the case. He's DH material, which is occupied by Scott, Huff, Snyder (soon), Rowell (hopefully not) and perhaps Reimold. Some of these guys will have to get unloaded if Lou is to have a future in Baltimore.

[Sports Guy]

Montanez played in the majors for a stint and had more offensive success than Pie in his two stints, and in the AL East to boot. Isn't that proof that he doesn't need AAA to show he's better?

I guess I can get Reimold, even though I think he's better than Montanez, but Lou skipped AAA and only had a problem defensively, which he's now improved.

You may want to check out Lou's AAA stats before saying that.

[ScottieBaseball]

And you are ignoring on the field ML performance because the Orioles finally acquired one of your mancrushes.

I remember how you weren't exactly MacPhail's biggest fan until Pie was suddenly acquired...

Both you and SG need to mellow a litttle, but you, JTrea, are continuing to ignore his point: Adam Jones and Felix Pie were/are basically the same player statistically at the minor league level.

Pie's been yanked around a bit with 250 MLB at-bats scattered over the course of two seasons doesn't diminish the comparison. It set Pie back a bit in terms of a timeline in my opinion, but I still think we'll look back on this discussion and chuckle to think we once doubted that Felix would be a good, everyday MLB outfielder.