What a difference a couple players make

[BRobinsonfan]

2 hours ago, Jagwar said:

Posted a similar reply to you in the other thread. The O's may be getting hot, but they are also healthy. Getting Webb, Coulombe, Westburg, Urias, Mountcastle and Kjerstad back is huge. Like a mini trade deadline where we had to give up the schmoes they replaced. 

It's almost like there's some correlation between "health" and "performance."  

[Frobby]

9 hours ago, HowAboutThat said:

Westburg, Urias, Mountcastle…

Good defense, even when there’s bad defense. Westburg missed a ball that went for a hit, but I didn’t feel any foreboding, no,”here we go again” because I felt sure that that one play wouldn’t ruin the game. And it didn’t.

Good pitching, even when there’s bad pitching. Eflin had never in his whole career walked 5 guys, but I wasn’t worried, for some reason. Even when Bowman had his worst outing as an oriole, I wasn’t worried, no,”here we go again” because I felt sure we’d win. And we did.

Good hitting, good base running, even when Santander REALLY wanted that triple… and didn’t get it. 

The fundamental baseball smarts seem to have returned, so a mistake is just a mistake.

Or, maybe we just bludgeoned the Yankees to the extent that the mistakes didn’t matter.  Actually, when it was 3-1 I was still frosty about not scoring more runs in the first due up Santander’s mistake and a poor slide by O’Hearn.  

[Moose Milligan]

14 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

People don’t want to hear excuses..they just want to complain.

The bottom line is the Os had a lot of injuries and a lot of bad luck outside of those injuries. 
 

This whole situation reminds me of Colton Cowser earlier this year.  Lots of people were saying he wasn’t good, send him down, etc…and then you would show them the statcast numbers, show why he’s been unlucky and show why the defense is so valuable and all they wanted to do was stick their fingers in their ears, yell lalallala can’t hear you and say, show me results.

The inability for me to see the forest through the trees, despite the mountains of evidence put in front of them, is really mind boggling to me.

 

Yeah, no one wants to hear reasons, they just want to ask why.

To play devil's advocate, I understand where you're coming from about Cowser but hearing "but his statcast numbers" and "he's getting unlucky" gets old after awhile.  

That said, it is evidence and it does mean something.  But people don't wanna hear it.

[Tony-OH]

58 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

You aren’t going to be great all the time.  They were 1 game under 500 in July.  Last year’s team didn’t have a sub 500 month but they were 13-11 one month. That’s obviously better than 12-13 but it’s not that much different. 
 

But the idiotic comments on this board the last few months were so over the top and the ignoring and dismissal of the massive amount of injuries was astoundingly dumb.

The impact of those injuries also went beyond just the injured players themselves. It was the guys replacing them and how bad they were. The Os were routinely putting out several sub 650 OPs guys everyday. Lots of automatic outs.

I don't think anyone dismissed the injuries. Sure, there were some over the top comments, and it was easy to be frustrated by how this team's unclutch hitting, poor relief pitching (more last night), and poor defense created an environment where the team played under .500 ball for over 81 games.

Is this team better healthy, of course. But even in the the first Yankees win the team went 1-for-6 with RISP. Yesterday they ran into a terrible pitcher in Strohman and brought their bats (17 hits), but they still ran into an out for no reason (Santander's out at 3rd was a poor decision that we've seen this team do many times this year) and Bowman made the game a save situation when given a 6 runs lead in the 9th.

Now, do I feel better about with everyone but Grayson back? Sure. Westburg and Urias make this team definitely better then seeing Holliday and Rivera/Mayo manning these positions. Having Mountcastle out there instead of O'Hearn against lefties and seeing Eloy sent to the minors made me go, "Yay!!!". 

We all knew Coulombe and Webb were going to make the bullpen better as well, but they still have no real closer (maybe Coulombe gets that nod?).

So yes, getting these players back certainly make the team better. 

The team also has shown an ability to play well with no pressure. There is really no pressure right now on them so perhaps that's a good thing. Now the pressure will ramp back up once the playoffs start, but if they can go into the playoffs hot, feeling refreshed with the "whole team" back, and with less expectations due to their poor 2nd half, then maybe, just maybe this team can do something in the playoffs.

It will be interesting to see if the Twins are eliminated, how they end up playing this weekend. The Orioles could very well hit the playoffs playing very well, feeling confident, and maybe, just maybe, win a series or two. 

Now saying that, I 100% would rather see them play the Yankees than the Indians if they make it that far. The Orioles have clearly played the Yankees better this season.

[Sports Guy]

3 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:

 

Yeah, no one wants to hear reasons, they just want to ask why.

To play devil's advocate, I understand where you're coming from about Cowser but hearing "but his statcast numbers" and "he's getting unlucky" gets old after awhile.  

That said, it is evidence and it does mean something.  But people don't wanna hear it.

It may get old but that doesn’t change the facts. He was using all fields, pounding the baseball, having good at bats, etc…everyone acknowledges the hole in his bat. But sub 600 months were absurd even with that…his results should have been way better but it just wasn’t happening for him.  All of us who were behind him said the same thing…look at the “other results” and he will be fine.

[Sports Guy]

4 minutes ago, Tony-OH said:

I don't think anyone dismissed the injuries. Sure, there were some over the top comments, and it was easy to be frustrated by how this team's unclutch hitting, poor relief pitching (more last night), and poor defense created an environment where the team played under .500 ball for over 81 games.

Is this team better healthy, of course. But even in the the first Yankees win the team went 1-for-6 with RISP. Yesterday they ran into a terrible pitcher in Strohman and brought their bats (17 hits), but they still ran into an out for no reason (Santander's out at 3rd was a poor decision that we've seen this team do many times this year) and Bowman made the game a save situation when given a 6 runs lead in the 9th.

Now, do I feel better about with everyone but Grayson back? Sure. Westburg and Urias make this team definitely better then seeing Holliday and Rivera/Mayo manning these positions. Having Mountcastle out there instead of O'Hearn against lefties and seeing Eloy sent to the minors made me go, "Yay!!!". 

We all knew Coulombe and Webb were going to make the bullpen better as well, but they still have no real closer (maybe Coulombe gets that nod?).

So yes, getting these players back certainly make the team better. 

The team also has shown an ability to play well with no pressure. There is really no pressure right now on them so perhaps that's a good thing. Now the pressure will ramp back up once the playoffs start, but if they can go into the playoffs hot, feeling refreshed with the "whole team" back, and with less expectations due to their poor 2nd half, then maybe, just maybe this team can do something in the playoffs.

It will be interesting to see if the Twins are eliminated, how they end up playing this weekend. The Orioles could very well hit the playoffs playing very well, feeling confident, and maybe, just maybe, win a series or two. 

Now saying that, I 100% would rather see them play the Yankees than the Indians if they make it that far. The Orioles have clearly played the Yankees better this season.

There is plenty of reason to doubt the team in October, namely the pen. I don’t trust one guy in the pen with maybe the exception of DC and even that, he is still rusty.

But having those questions is extremely different than the mindless drivel that was being posted on here and all of Os social media and no, it wasn’t really any better here than the other formats.

 

[Bemorewins]

3 hours ago, Roll Tide said:

So ..Are we getting hot or just seem to have the Yankees number?

I hope that we are getting hot at the right time. 

However, I have to see it against someone other than the Yanks before I believe that things have truly changed for the better.

[Tony-OH]

9 minutes ago, Frobby said:

Or, maybe we just bludgeoned the Yankees to the extent that the mistakes didn’t matter.  Actually, when it was 3-1 I was still frosty about not scoring more runs in the first due up Santander’s mistake and a poor slide by O’Hearn.  

Which are the poor fundamentals we've seen throughout this season. Everytime this team wins or something happens a few will go, "I told you so." 

It's just like when Holliday came back up and hit those 5 home runs in his first ten games back and all the "I told you he was ready" and "I told you he never needed to go back to the minors," came out. Of course when he hit like a pitcher and fielded like Jeff Kent at 2B, they go quiet.

Personally, I've expressed my frustration while always knowing that injuries had hurt this team. It didn't take a rocket scientist to know the team would be better with the players that have returned, but we had no idea how they would look upon return.  

So far, they've all performed well and the team looks better. Running around saying I told you so is just ridiculous because pretty much everyone knew this team would be better with the returning players.

In the end, let's hope this team can continue their winning ways going into the playoffs. 

But the poor fundamentals and relief pitching remain a concern and until I see this team hit consistently with RISP or get guys in from 3rd with less than two outs I'll still have concerns over their clutchness.

[Can_of_corn]

Obviously injuries have an impact but they are also part of the game and should be accounted for by the front office.

We kept hearing about all the depth the O's were accumulating in the minors and then we see the caliber of retreads that are brought in to replace injured players.

Mountcastle goes down and they can't do better than Eloy?

[Tony-OH]

1 minute ago, Sports Guy said:

There is plenty of reason to doubt the team in October, namely the pen. I don’t trust one guy in the pen with maybe the exception of DC and even that, he is still rusty.

But having those questions is extremely different than the mindless drivel that was being posted on here and all of Os social media and no, it wasn’t really any better here than the other formats.

 

Obviously anyone calling for Hyde or Elias' head was being driven by emotion rather than looking at things with a level head. 

I agree, this pen is not very good because there are too many guys that are inconsistent. They have the potential to be very good (Soto is starting to look very good) at times, and they very well could put it together in the playoffs, but without that shut down closer, or even a shutdown 8th guy (Coulombe could be that guy but that he's also a little rusty with his command), they are going to have to play matchups and that means more pitchers have to be sharp per game, and that's a scary way to finish off close games.

[Sports Guy]

21 minutes ago, Tony-OH said:

Obviously anyone calling for Hyde or Elias' head was being driven by emotion rather than looking at things with a level head. 

I agree, this pen is not very good because there are too many guys that are inconsistent. They have the potential to be very good (Soto is starting to look very good) at times, and they very well could put it together in the playoffs, but without that shut down closer, or even a shutdown 8th guy (Coulombe could be that guy but that he's also a little rusty with his command), they are going to have to play matchups and that means more pitchers have to be sharp per game, and that's a scary way to finish off close games.

The pen is 100% the biggest question mark and it still bothers me that Elias didn’t do more.

That said, as I have been saying for a while, you need 4 relievers to win. You don’t need 7…you need 4.

Can we find 4 guys out of Soto, DC, Webb, Dominguez, Suarez, Povich, Akin, Cano and Perez?

I have my doubts but like you said, the talent is there. The swing and miss is there, which you need.  But do they have it between the ears? 

I have my doubts but we saw the Rangers win with a worse pen last year. We just need guys to pitch well for a few weeks.

Edited 10 hours ago by Sports Guy

[Tony-OH]

2 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

Obviously injuries have an impact but they are also part of the game and should be accounted for by the front office.

We kept hearing about all the depth the O's were accumulating in the minors and then we see the caliber of retreads that are brought in to replace injured players.

Mountcastle goes down and they can't do better than Eloy?

After this season, if I have time, I want to really look at Elias' drafting of college hitters strategy to see if it's been effective outside of the 1st round. 

The fact that the Orioles did have to go out and get Eloy, Slater, and Rivera types shows that they didn't have the depth in AAA that they needed when players went down.

Sure, the shocking ineffectiveness of Holliday and Mayo at the major league level did not help, but again, Elias has been drafting mostly college hitters in the top 10 rounds and none of them outside of the 1st rounders, besides Ortiz who helped get Burnes, have contributed to the Orioles this season. Norby and Stowers were never really given a chance and then were traded away for a 90 MPH lefty who ended up in AAA.

I'd like to see someone after the season look into Elias' in season trades to see how his scouts stack up. 

But for now, let's see how this season plays out. 

It's easy to feel good after two wins against the Yankees with our team at almost full strength (GRod not returning hurts). 

[Fiver6565]

7 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

Obviously injuries have an impact but they are also part of the game and should be accounted for by the front office.

We kept hearing about all the depth the O's were accumulating in the minors and then we see the caliber of retreads that are brought in to replace injured players.

Mountcastle goes down and they can't do better than Eloy?

Not sure how you can criticize lack of depth when the injuries pile up the way they did. Maybe Tony plays some first if Kjerstad was available to play RF. But he wasn’t. Maybe Urias plays some first if he’s not having to play third (and then hurt himself). Maybe Mayo can DH instead of Eloy if he doesn’t come up hitting like a pitcher (or having to play third because Urias and Westburg are both out). No team has the level of depth to withstand all of that at the same time. 

[ChuckS]

6 minutes ago, Tony-OH said:

Obviously anyone calling for Hyde or Elias' head was being driven by emotion rather than looking at things with a level head. 

I agree, this pen is not very good because there are too many guys that are inconsistent. They have the potential to be very good (Soto is starting to look very good) at times, and they very well could put it together in the playoffs, but without that shut down closer, or even a shutdown 8th guy (Coulombe could be that guy but that he's also a little rusty with his command), they are going to have to play matchups and that means more pitchers have to be sharp per game, and that's a scary way to finish off close games.

Hopefully they are able to shorten some of these playoff games with Suarez in the pen (at least for the WC round) and not needing a fifth starter.  That should lessen the burden of the pen.  Akin is a guy I'd like to see in two inning stints.  That could be another advantage to avoid over exposure. 

[Tony-OH]

3 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

I have my doubts but we saw the Rangers win with a worse pen last year. We just need guys to pitch well for a few weeks.

Which is exactly what we need to hope for. Is Soto rounding into the guy Elias thought he had acquired? Can Coulombe shake off the rust and be himself? Can Cano figure out how to get lefties out again? Can Perez miss bats or get ground balls when he needs to and not walk himself into trouble? Can Webb be a guy you trust in higher leverage situations again? Can Seranthony not give up homeruns or forget how to throws strikes on occasion? 

All of these guys have talent and can get the job done, but we also know that all of them have struggled at times (besides Coulombe and Webb who's biggest issue are rust). 

Basically the bullpen is a hold your breath bullpen vs the 2014 O'Day, Miller and Britton bullpen where if you had a lead going into the 7th the game was over kind of bullpen.