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I really don't understand the argument...


ejf1025

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I think life experience should have at least taught you that not everyone who is paid to do something is necessarily always making the right decision every time.

There are no real implications here, you are not compromising anything except the betterment of the ballclub. This team needs to break out of culture of losing, of tepidation and timid decisions.

Matt Wieters is the best C we have for all intents and purposes, and it makes no difference to his development, so he should be up here. We should put our best team forward if it doesn't hurt us.

Life experience has taught me, that people with serious credentials tend to know a lot more about their area of expertise than duffers. So I would be more inclined to accept AM's decisions about baseball matters over just about any bloviator on this board. That's just good common sense. Of course he won't be right 100 % of the time, but he'll be right 98% of the time, compared to any one here.
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Can he pitch???? Our lineup could be as good as the Rangers...Sadly our pitching is worse. Just wait until ou rotation wears out the pen. Wieters doesnt improve the rotation. So really lets be honest. Are we blaming Zaun???

He was a closer in college...so, yeah. He can pitch.

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A couple weeks--even months--couldn't possibly make a lick of difference on a player's develoment. If Bergesen and Wieters (contractual issues aside) are ready to play here in May and June, they are ready to play here now.

We're not talking Rowell or Erbe here, these guys are ready--we all know it, and they couldn't be worse than Simon/Zaun.

Is there really an argument for keeing them down now? They make us better now, they're not being rushed...I mean, you get to see the young guys play and almost assuredly will see better on-field results. It's have your cake and eat it too.

Just call them up.

Simon, is hurt. But what is wrong wirth Zaun? Weiters will be up this month or in May. Why be in such a rush? The team is 6 and 3.

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As of tonight, his average is at .261.

Small sample size and all, but a 2-5 night brings it from .222 to .261. All he needs is a big weekend and he could be batting .350 for when he is called up on Tuesday.

Would he be ready then, in five days?

Do you really beleive he will be called up Tuesday? I would like to see him in Baltimore. I can see this issue from Old Fan. That Zaun is experienced in calling games. And the others that beleive Weiters is better player and needs to be here. Glad the FO makes those decisions and not me.

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What have you seen from Zaun that indicates that he calls a game better than Matt Wieters?

Calling a game well is not a formula. It comes from experience working with the pitching staff.

There's only one way to get that experience.

Zaun is a veteran. He has played the game a long time. He has the experience of calling games. Weiters has not done that yet. Any rookie coming up to the bigs is going to have some bumps. Weiters may he in Baltimore in a week.

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I think there's only one argument one can really make to suggest Wieters should stay down past tuesday, and that's to avoid making him a super 2 player. He's ready, he has been for awhile, but I have fully supported keeping him down to gain the extra year, however I don't think it's worth it to keep him from being a super 2. Won't be the end of the world if that's what AM decides to do though.

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There is little if any real point to holding Wieters back until May/June. Super 2 status won't break the bank here. Bergy is, in all likeleyhood going to get called up this weekend so that argument is moot.

As for some of the pitchers. I don't think it was really about working on stuff so much as getting innings and stretching out in a, relative, consequence-free environment. I don't think that anyone is arguing that 3/5 of our current rotation is better than some of our minor league guys but I think there is a valid argument in giving those minor league guys an opportunity to log some more long inning performances and stretch themselves out a little more in a place where they have a little less pressure on them.

So in that sense, two or three starts can help.

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A couple weeks--even months--couldn't possibly make a lick of difference on a player's develoment. If Bergesen and Wieters (contractual issues aside) are ready to play here in May and June, they are ready to play here now.

We're not talking Rowell or Erbe here, these guys are ready--we all know it, and they couldn't be worse than Simon/Zaun.

Is there really an argument for keeing them down now? They make us better now, they're not being rushed...I mean, you get to see the young guys play and almost assuredly will see better on-field results. It's have your cake and eat it too.

Just call them up.

Yea, pretty much. Service time stuff is somewhat legitimate. But if you're going to call a guy up after a handful of starts in AAA, why did you even have the filler on hand to begin with.

I guess the counter argument might be that if Simon wasn't hurt Bergesen might have been left down for 10 or 15 starts. And Wieters is all about service time. If the leave him down until June I think that's penny-pinching, and pretty silly. But not completely indefensible.

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Funny you say this because Bergesen was ready last August and likely so was Wieters.

There isn't much difference in calling him them up now vs. doing it last August as far as their readiness goes. Bergesen didn't suddenly improve due to ST and the two starts he's had at AAA.

Yep....You gain the service time..Other than that, you really didn't gain much at all.

A couple of things here:

1. The service time issue is very important, IMO.

2. For Bergesen, I doubt they would have wanted him to pitch many more innings than he already had.

3. Neither was on the 40-man roster so the O's would have had to jettison two players.

4. I disagree that players can't make improvements over the winter or in spring training. Bergesen's K rate has been better this year than at any time last year. How do we know what he worked on this winter or this spring, that is different than what he was able to do in-season last year? I don't know about you guys, but I have no idea whether Bergesen threw 50 change-ups every other day all winter, or whether he spent all winter sitting on the couch drinking beer and eating Doritos. Do you know?

5. As to Wieters, his experience of playing in the AFL against high-level competition, and spending a lot of time at major league spring training, prepares him more for the 2009 season than he would have been prepared to come up at the end of last year. And Tony has mentioned several times that Wieters' throwing arm got tired at the end of last season because it was the first time he had played in so many games.

For all these reasons, bringing these guys up in 2009 makes infinitely more sense than it would have made in 2008. I certainly don't think 2 starts at AAA this year materially improves Bergesen's preparedness, compared to where he was in Florida; nor do I think there was any significant non-contractual reason to hold back Wieters. But as far as 2009 vs. 2008, it was a no-brainer and I am very glad they waited.

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Seems to be a lot of people claiming our pitchers are ready to compete in the majors .... just like a lot of people wanted Olson or Liz in the 08 Opening Day rotation or brought up sooner.

I hope they are better, but there is nothing wrong with compiling some experience in AAA.

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I think life experience should have at least taught you that not everyone who is paid to do something is necessarily always making the right decision every time.

I trust that AM has a method to his approach & a proven track record.

There are no real implications here, you are not compromising anything except the betterment of the ballclub. This team needs to break out of culture of losing, of tepidation and timid decisions.

Unless Matt struggles & there is no way anyone here can convince me that Wieters will immediately call a better game than Zaun.

Matt Wieters is the best C we have for all intents and purposes, and it makes no difference to his development, so he should be up here. We should put our best team forward if it doesn't hurt us.

Would you feel the same way if Wieters got here & struggled? Or would you jump on the bash the organization for rushing him band wagon.

Really...

No matter who you could add to the lineup it wont fix the lack of talent on the pitching staff. Guthrie has given us 2 solid outings...The rest of the guys have been below average up to this point. If the rotation 4/5 of it continue to stuggle to give 5 innings the Orioles are in trouble. Matt Wieters doesnt affect that scenario. Wieters does have things to work on imo. I dont believe he will burst on the scene & immediately call a better game than Zaun. Sure his arm is better & his stick will be. There is a benefit to being patient rather than the knee jerk stuff thats going on at this forum.

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Zaun is a veteran. He has played the game a long time. He has the experience of calling games. Weiters has not done that yet. Any rookie coming up to the bigs is going to have some bumps. Weiters may he in Baltimore in a week.

Isn't that what I said?

I'm just saying that most here are talking about calling a game well as if it's some formula that Wieters has yet to unlock.

It comes from experience with working with a staff and having a working knowledge of the hitters.

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