I really don't understand the argument...

[ejf1025]

I trust that AM has a method to his approach & a proven track record.

Unless Matt struggles & there is no way anyone here can convince me that Wieters will immediately call a better game than Zaun.

Would you feel the same way if Wieters got here & struggled? Or would you jump on the bash the organization for rushing him band wagon.

Really...

No matter who you could add to the lineup it wont fix the lack of talent on the pitching staff. Guthrie has given us 2 solid outings...The rest of the guys have been below average up to this point. If the rotation 4/5 of it continue to stuggle to give 5 innings the Orioles are in trouble. Matt Wieters doesnt affect that scenario. Wieters does have things to work on imo. I dont believe he will burst on the scene & immediately call a better game than Zaun. Sure his arm is better & his stick will be. There is a benefit to being patient rather than the knee jerk stuff thats going on at this forum.

No, I wouldnt bash the organization. I'm clearly saying the correct decision is to bring him up now.

The only reason I will listen to--grudingly--is the Super 2.

What's more likely...Wieters comes up and struggles so badly that we yearn for Gregg Zaun to catch...or Wieters comes up and plays better than Zaun.

You keep clamoring about Wieters' .200 avg....what about Zaun's .136?

[bird watcher]

No, I wouldnt bash the organization. I'm clearly saying the correct decision is to bring him up now.

The only reason I will listen to--grudingly--is the Super 2.

What's more likely...Wieters comes up and struggles so badly that we yearn for Gregg Zaun to catch...or Wieters comes up and plays better than Zaun.

You keep clamoring about Wieters' .200 avg....what about Zaun's .136?

I am surprised it took 5 pages to point this out. And Wieters is more like .260 now.

I am more rushed to see BB than I am to see MW. Does that make me crazy? We need some pitching or we are going to start having our good bullpen guys injured, which is totally counterproductive.

[Old#5fan]

No, I wouldnt bash the organization. I'm clearly saying the correct decision is to bring him up now.

The only reason I will listen to--grudingly--is the Super 2.

What's more likely...Wieters comes up and struggles so badly that we yearn for Gregg Zaun to catch...or Wieters comes up and plays better than Zaun.

You keep clamoring about Wieters' .200 avg....what about Zaun's .136?

Some of you are really missing the boat here with Zaun. He certainly wasn't signed for his bat, but rather his ability to call a game, block pitches and the plate, something that Ramon was terrible at doing. He is also to serve as a role model for Wieters when he arrives. So PLEASE stop bashing ZAUN. He is doing what he was hired to do and doing it quite WELL!

[rjslomo]

Greg Zaun was signed to allow Wieters to go to the minors for whatever period was needed to get MW out of the potential Super 2 status and then act as a mentor/coach/backup to Wieters when he arrived. The whole deal with the O's signing Zaun to that role is they feel he does a very good job calling a game, blocking balls/playing defense, and keeping the pitchers calm and on an even keel. A few things have affected Zaun with his throwing as he had that injury/strain on his shoulder which might mean he's still working his arm strength back to 100%. He seems to be working with the pitchers well but with a 3-5 of Simon, Hendrickson and Eaton, there's only so much he can do. He's not a miracle worker. Zaun has been very good and I have no concerns with him catching, especially with how well the lineup has been so far.

As for Wieters, he's obviously in AAA for monetary reasons which is completely understandable. There are other reasons as well. We've already heard that his arm got somewhat tired late last year and he's learning how to pace himself for a long season. The minor league staff also wants to see how he works on game calling, framing pitches, blocking balls in the dirt, making throws, taking charge of defensive play calling for the infield, etc. In addition, he's getting valuable experience with Bergeson, Tillman, Hernandez, Pauley, Waters, Mickolio, McCrory, & Liz (until his callup) in Norfolk. There's a very good chance he'll be catching these guys in Baltimore more than Eaton, Simon, and maybe Hendrickson although Hendrickson is probably going to end up in the pen. He may even catch Rich Hill on a rehab assignment if he's down for a few more weeks. As a catcher in high school, college and semi-pro leagues, it is very important to know the tendencies of your pitchers. How do they look in the 1st inning when pitchers tend to have some struggles as they work to find their release point, throw more fastballs than breaking pitches, and work on command? What pitch do they feel comfortable throwing when they need a big pitch? When do you start to notice that they seem to tire? Can you see them making adjustments when needed and how easily can they make adjustments? All these things are going to make Matt a better catcher and are things he can work on in the minors and with guys that he'll probably work more with as starters, at least, later in the year in Baltimore.

[ejf1025]

Some of you are really missing the boat here with Zaun. He certainly wasn't signed for his bat, but rather his ability to call a game, block pitches and the plate, something that Ramon was terrible at doing. He is also to serve as a role model for Wieters when he arrives. So PLEASE stop bashing ZAUN. He is doing what he was hired to do and doing it quite WELL!

Nobody is bashing Zaun. We're simply saying what is true. Matt Wieters is the better player. Zaun can still be on the team (Moeller is the one leaving), he can still be a vet, catch some games, let Wieters DH, he can be a role model, etc.

But Wieters will help us win more. And he is a good defensive catcher as well.

You are completely and utterly overrating the skill of calling games. It's not rocket science. Gregg Zaun is not some catching maestro who wills avg pitchers to great performance by calling pitches.

[wildcard]

Wieters - It's all about money. If they bring him up before June 1st he may become a Super 2. That would cost the O's over $10M over Wieters first 7 years. And for what? The O's do not have the pitching to contend this year. So the question that O's management is probably looking at is - Why spend $10M for nothing.

Bergesen - Well Tony says he has a hunch (insider) that says he is coming on Monday or Tuesday. Tony is usually right. However, its pretty clear that the O's wanted Bergesen to get experience at the AAA level. Two starts is not experience in my book. So I would not he surprised to see Waters (6 scoreless innings last night) or Pauley.

Patton - Whoever is promoted from AAA will open a spot on the Norfolk starting staff. I hope they promote Patton to AAA. He has 11 scoreless innings over 2 starts. He looks healthy and he has already proven he can do well a AA so why keep him there?

[Left Field]

Kinda on a side note but..... We are going to have to hide the women and children if they bring up anyone other then BB. It will be an epic meltdown on here. I'm thinking the day that Tex signed with NY kinda meltdown...

[Frobby]

Some of you are really missing the boat here with Zaun. He certainly wasn't signed for his bat, but rather his ability to call a game, block pitches and the plate, something that Ramon was terrible at doing. He is also to serve as a role model for Wieters when he arrives. So PLEASE stop bashing ZAUN. He is doing what he was hired to do and doing it quite WELL!

I agree. I'm a little concerned that his arm is still not 100%, as he hasn't had a lot of zip on his throws. Otherwise he is doing a good job.

There are a lot of subtleties to catching and game-calling, not all of which are transparent to fans who haven't played major league baseball. I trust the Orioles' judgment on whether Wieters will benefit by honing that part of his game at AAA for a little while, or whether he'd benefit more by being in the majors where Zaun can be mentoring him on a daily basis.

What we don't know is whether the Orioles are being truthful when they say that service time is not a consideration. That may be true, or it may be complete B.S.

[JTrea81]

Wieters - It's all about money. If they bring him up before June 1st he may become a Super 2. That would cost the O's over $10M over Wieters first 7 years. And for what? The O's do not have the pitching to contend this year. So the question that O's management is probably looking at is - Why spend $10M for nothing.

The Orioles need to put butts in the seats, that's why. That 10 million for Wieters will be partially made up from increased attendance. I could imagine 5,000 - 10,000 a game more if the Orioles bring Wieters up. The kid has that much hype. And you've got 23 home dates before June 1st. Figure about $30 average per person for concessions and tickets and that's $3.5 - $6.9 million right there of extra revenue possibly brought in by just bringing up Wieters...

So that leaves about $2.1 - $6.5 million that you'd have to pay extra over the next 7 years.

[NewMarketSean]

The Orioles need to put butts in the seats, that's why. That 10 million for Wieters will be partially made up from increased attendance. I could imagine 5,000 - 10,000 a game more if the Orioles bring Wieters up. The kid has that much hype. And you've got 23 home dates before June 1st. Figure about $30 average per person for concessions and tickets and that's $3.5 - $6.9 million right there of extra revenue possibly brought in by just bringing up Wieters...

So that leaves about $2.1 - $6.5 million that you'd have to pay extra over the next 7 years.

I can maybe see 5,000 more fans than usual coming out for Wieters' first game as an Oriole, but not 10,000 and not every night for the first few weeks.

[BirdMan]

Some of you are really missing the boat here with Zaun. He certainly wasn't signed for his bat, but rather his ability to call a game, block pitches and the plate, something that Ramon was terrible at doing. He is also to serve as a role model for Wieters when he arrives. So PLEASE stop bashing ZAUN. He is doing what he was hired to do and doing it quite WELL!

Thats wrong he was signed to mentor Weiters, to start a few weeks and then be the backup catcher he has been for 95% of is career. let the mentoring begin.

Can anyone tell me the exact date Weiters can be called up and not have it count against his service time?

[ScottieBaseball]

I agree. I'm a little concerned that his arm is still not 100%, as he hasn't had a lot of zip on his throws. Otherwise he is doing a good job.

There are a lot of subtleties to catching and game-calling, not all of which are transparent to fans who haven't played major league baseball. I trust the Orioles' judgment on whether Wieters will benefit by honing that part of his game at AAA for a little while, or whether he'd benefit more by being in the majors where Zaun can be mentoring him on a daily basis.

What we don't know is whether the Orioles are being truthful when they say that service time is not a consideration. That may be true, or it may be complete B.S.

I can't think of another active MLB catcher better-suited to help teach Wieters those subtleties of catching and game-calling. I think the sooner they get started, the faster Matt Wieters will live up to his billing. What about all the experience he's missing out on calling pitches with guys like Derrick Jeter, Dustin Pedroia, Evan Longoria, and the like in the batter's box? He can work and talk strategy with his own pitchers till the cows come home. You can't simulate a Mark Teixeira at-bat. There's as much value in that experience as there is in calling the game.

It's ALL about the service time and NOTHING about working with pitchers he'll see over the next few years. Experience with Bergesen and Hernandez are byproducts of the club's decision to hold him back to gain the extra year, but they weren't REASONS they did it. The club cited it as a reason to delay Wieters' arrival to Camden Yards to save face a little and get the more casual fans to believe it wasn't all about the money.

[JTrea81]

Thats wrong he was signed to mentor Weiters, to start a few weeks and then be the backup catcher he has been for 95% of is career. let the mentoring begin.

Can anyone tell me the exact date Weiters can be called up and not have it count against his service time?

Today is the first day Wieters can be called up as we have the extra year now. The next homestand would make perfect sense for his debut.

[Crazysilver03]

Today is the first day Wieters can be called up as we have the extra year now. The next homestand would make perfect sense for his debut.

I am liking the idea of Bergesen and Wieters on Tuesday.

[CaltoBilltoMill]

A couple weeks--even months--couldn't possibly make a lick of difference on a player's develoment. If Bergesen and Wieters (contractual issues aside) are ready to play here in May and June, they are ready to play here now.

We're not talking Rowell or Erbe here, these guys are ready--we all know it, and they couldn't be worse than Simon/Zaun.

Is there really an argument for keeing them down now? They make us better now, they're not being rushed...I mean, you get to see the young guys play and almost assuredly will see better on-field results. It's have your cake and eat it too.

Just call them up.

It's not about rushing them, it's about experience and steady progression, not A to Z.

No matter what they are quickly progressing through MLB development systems, which is rare. They are gifted athletes, but even gifted athletes need to learn at a steady pace through more advanced levels. Yes, there are exceptions to that, but why not throw them in a level higher for a month or two to make sure they continue to learn the little things learned in the minor leagues. Stay on the safe side and with the Orioles recent history of poor prospect management, I think they're extra cautious. Why not have the extra couple months of mental, physical development that may make a difference in the long term career of the player.

Look at all the can't miss and top prospects of the O's recent history and see guys where maybe if they waited a couple months, could have had a successful career with the O's.

Just my opinion